Eden was in Israel

[eprom]

For those of you who are interested in discovering the original location of Eden, I’ve just launched a web site defending Eden’s Israeli location. The site is a work in progress, but there is already lots of information here to review. The site deals with the Science, History, and Biblical foundations for this perspective, and can be viewed at:

www.faith-friends.com

• Science – Geology model, Mitochondrial Eve and the genetic arguments for the humanities first parents
• History – Rabbinic Tradition, Archetypes in Religion and Mythology
• Bible – Bible describes Eden and Israel to be defined by the same boundaries, Eden and the Temple, etc

If you think the story of Eden was just a metaphor to inspire humanity – bless you, but I have no time for this unless you are willing to try and back your perspective with Biblical text. I will only respond in this thread to those who would like to debate about Eden’s original location, or the arguments posted on this site.

[bandecoot]

For those of you who are interested in discovering the original location of Eden, I’ve just launched a web site defending Eden’s Israeli location. The site is a work in progress, but there is already lots of information here to review. The site deals with the Science, History, and Biblical foundations for this perspective, and can be viewed at:

www.faith-friends.com

• Science – Geology model, Mitochondrial Eve and the genetic arguments for the humanities first parents
• History – Rabbinic Tradition, Archetypes in Religion and Mythology
• Bible – Bible describes Eden and Israel to be defined by the same boundaries, Eden and the Temple, etc

If you think the story of Eden was just a metaphor to inspire humanity – bless you, but I have no time for this unless you are willing to try and back your perspective with Biblical text. I will only respond in this thread to those who would like to debate about Eden’s original location, or the arguments posted on this site.

Got news for you, neither the tigris nor Euphrayes is anywhere near Israel. Even I know that that thats where the bible places it.

[eprom]

Got news for you, neither the tigris nor Euphrayes is anywhere near Israel. Even I know that that thats where the bible places it.

Ah, another sceptic that wants to blurt out their perspective without taking even a glimpse at the evidence. Yes, the Tigris and Euphrates locations are undisputed, and their headwaters are in the province of Elazig in Eastern Turkey. The problem scholars have had is accepting the clearly defined location of the other two rivers of the Genesis 2 account in Arabia and Africa, for how does Eden’s river feed the headwaters of four rivers that are thousands of kilometres apart? The answer is that Eden’s river went underground, moved along what’s known as the “Great Rift Valley” and appeared as hot Springs, or Geysers at these other rivers Headwaters. To review the Geologic model of this perspective, go here:

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...dex&page_id=20

[bandecoot]

I reread the evidence, piffle is about the kindest thing I can say. headwaters of the nile? Which one? there are at least two, Lake tana in Ethiopia, which feeds the blue nile and lake victoria which feeds the white nile. Both of which are precipitaion dependant. Not Geothermal. There may be hot springs there but not of any magnitude. Wadi Al lith is on the coast and the whole river is less than 100 klms long.

I think I prefer Carrotas Julius is Jesus, to this rubbish.

[eprom]

I reread the evidence, piffle is about the kindest thing I can say. headwaters of the nile? Which one? there are at least two, Lake tana in Ethiopia, which feeds the blue nile and lake victoria which feeds the white nile. Both of which are precipitaion dependant. Not Geothermal. There may be hot springs there but not of any magnitude. Wadi Al lith is on the coast and the whole river is less than 100 klms long. I think I prefer Carrotas Julius is Jesus, to this rubbish.

Bandicoot – in truth, you never read the information at all the first time around, so lets cut out this “I reread” nonsense because it just makes you look foolish and egotistical! And, in fact, you have done little better reading the information this second time around, but perhaps English is not your first language. The point to referencing these geothermal springs is not to suggest they are the present source of these river heads. Dah! As it states in the geology model section of this site, this geothermal activity are just the remnants of the original river sources that can be observed today. Their present day existence simply ratifies the hypothesis that this was the mechanism that fed these rivers 10 to 20 thousand years ago - as it is described in Genesis 2:6 before rain fell on earth “But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.”

Also, the fact that there are presently multiple headwaters for the NileRiver is moot, as they are both coinsodental with the Great Rift Valley. In fact, the diagram on the site for Pishon shows multiple headwaters, but they are coinsodental with faults that are connected to The Great Rift Valley. Does that make sense? All these rivers are coinsodental with the Great Rift Valley – that’s the point bandicoot! If you’re so skeptical, please explain to me how you would explain feeding four separate river heads four thousand miles apart, with one river. And don't cross any oceanic plates – this is a no, no in geology bandicoot.

Also, the geologic model simply supports the Biblical evidence for this Eden in Israel proposition, and can be viewed here:

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...dex&page_id=19

But perhaps I should to send you a special edition with bold letters and highlights to aid in your comprehension of the material before you comment. We wouldn’t want you to continue looking as silly as you have to date, now would we.

[bandecoot]

Bandicoot – in truth, you never read the information at all the first time around, so lets cut out this “I reread” nonsense because it just makes you look foolish and egotistical! And, in fact, you have done little better reading the information this second time around, but perhaps English is not your first language. The point to referencing these geothermal springs is not to suggest they are the present source of these river heads. Dah! As it states in the geology model section of this site, this geothermal activity are just the remnants of the original river sources that can be observed today. Their present day existence simply ratifies the hypothesis that this was the mechanism that fed these rivers 10 to 20 thousand years ago - as it is described in Genesis 2:6 before rain fell on earth “But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.”

Also, the fact that there are presently multiple headwaters for the NileRiver is moot, as they are both coinsodental with the Great Rift Valley. In fact, the diagram on the site for Pishon shows multiple headwaters, but they are coinsodental with faults that are connected to The Great Rift Valley. Does that make sense? All these rivers are coinsodental with the Great Rift Valley – that’s the point bandicoot! If you’re so skeptical, please explain to me how you would explain feeding four separate river heads four thousand miles apart, with one river. And don't cross any oceanic plates – this is a no, no in geology bandicoot.

Also, the geologic model simply supports the Biblical evidence for this Eden in Israel proposition, and can be viewed here:

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...dex&page_id=19

But perhaps I should to send you a special edition with bold letters and highlights to aid in your comprehension of the material before you comment. We wouldn’t want you to continue looking as silly as you have to date, now would we.

I'll tell you what, you do that. Note that noone but me has bothered with this unmitigated garbage. I was just bored, and trying to get the hang of the Tweb posting method. You do what ever you think is best. Enjoy.

[learning]

I think Eden was in Iran cause when I read something David Rohl wrote about it, the original names of those other languages fit those rivers, and 'Cush' and the other name of the land nearby are close to names that they called that land in the original languages of that area. (Cush and Nod)

Gold (that is mentioned that is near one of the other rivers) well, when I looked it up, it appeared that a British geologist had noted that too, and years ago mined in that area and they found gold again. Shoot, beat us to it!:)

Some place Eden down to the south and think some of those other rivers used to be rivers that are now dry beds. But the local natives in Iran seemed to have a knowledge of some of the things of that area. 'Eden' does mean 'Plain or pleasant plain' I think, so it could refer to almost anywhere if you can fit those rivers in. I think a Lake 'Van' is near where the Eden is supposed to be.

He used to have a link to it, but I find it is a dead link now. Too bad.

Here's a link that covers about the same thing as was in the other, only without pictures
www.biblicalheritage.org/Archaeology/eden.htm

[eprom]

I think Eden was in Iran cause when I read something David Rohl wrote about it, the original names of those other languages fit those rivers, and 'Cush' and the other name of the land nearby are close to names that they called that land in the original languages of that area. (Cush and Nod)

Many of the web site suggesting other locations for Eden are posted on my web site and can be found here:

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...viewlink&cid=2

The problem with the Iranian proposition is that you have to make all the rivers in the Genesis 2 account up. All 4 rivers! More significantly, the Iranian location has no Biblical or historical collaboration, where Eden in Israel does - see historical evidence here:

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...dex&page_id=21

Gold (that is mentioned that is near one of the other rivers) well, when I looked it up, it appeared that a British geologist had noted that too, and years ago mined in that area and they found gold again. Shoot, beat us to it!:)

Gold has been mined in the Arabian shield for thousands of years, specifically around the Medina, where the headwaters of Pishon are located. See map of shield and mineral potential here:

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/sametalpics.htm

See map of Pishon with Arabian Shield can be seen here:

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/in...owimages&fid=3

Some place Eden down to the south and think some of those other rivers used to be rivers that are now dry beds. But the local natives in Iran seemed to have a knowledge of some of the things of that area. 'Eden' does mean 'Plain or pleasant plain' I think, so it could refer to almost anywhere if you can fit those rivers in. I think a Lake 'Van' is near where the Eden is supposed to be.

Lake Van is in Turkey, (different than the Iranian proposition) and this is recognized as the second most accepted location for Eden's original location. The problems with this location can be viewed here:
http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...q=yes&id_cat=5

[eprom]

I'll tell you what, you do that. Note that noone but me has bothered with this unmitigated garbage. I was just bored, and trying to get the hang of the Tweb posting method. You do what ever you think is best. Enjoy.

Dude, it’s not good or bad material if you don’t read it. If its garbage as you suggest, come up with a reasonable argument to suggest a viable alternative, rather than just throwing mud around. Though, I do understand bandicoots a very capable of digging wholes in the ground and moving a lot of dirt. Here’s an adorable picture of a Spiny Bandicoot here: http://www.schoolworld.asn.au/species/bancoot2.html

Isn’t he cute!

[learning]

eprom:

The problem with the Iranian proposition is that you have to make all the rivers in the Genesis 2 account up. All 4 rivers! More significantly, the Iranian location has no Biblical or historical collaboration, where Eden in Israel does - see historical evidence here:

learning:
The rivers are solved by Rohl's going back to some of the original names of some of the things, I think. In the link I provided, it mentions that Rohl solves the problem of the Gihon and Pishon rivers with the Araxes and Uizhum rivers. The last is said to be called locally 'The Golden River' and winds around old goldmines.
Land of Cush is equivalent to Kusheh Daugh, the Mountain of Kush, and Land of Nod = 'Noqdi'.

[eprom]

The rivers are solved by Rohl's going back to some of the original names of some of the things, I think. In the link I provided, it mentions that Rohl solves the problem of the Gihon and Pishon rivers with the Araxes and Uizhum rivers. The last is said to be called locally 'The Golden River' and winds around old goldmines. Land of Cush is equivalent to Kusheh Daugh, the Mountain of Kush, and Land of Nod = 'Noqdi'.

I do appreciate the direction of Dr Rohl’s arguments, but if we were basing the location on the association of names with the Biblical text, any country on the planet would qualify. In Latter-day Saint theology, the Garden of Eden is believed to be located at what is now inside the city limits of Independence, Missouri, and they would use native names of the surrounding areas in the same way. Ridiculous! Rohl does not even attempt to solve the way Eden’s river splits into the four other rivers, but simply proposes the region of Eden was coinsodental with the four rivers he suggests are mentioned in Genesis 2 account. This is a geology problem that must be solved if one places any credence on the Genesis account. Finally, the land of Cush was not a mystery to the Hebrew people that had just spent 400 years in Egypt – it was well known to them as the southern kingdom of Egypt, Sudan, and Ethiopia. This was not cryptic message about a river in northern Iran, and is an absolute deal breaker for Rohl’s location.

Rohl’s work is based on retracing a 5,000-year-old route to Eden described in Sumerian cuneiform clay tablets held by the Museum of the Orient in Istanbul regarding "Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta", an emissary that was dispatched to Aratta, on the plain of "Edin". If you are going to use mythology to try and collaborate the Bibles account of Eden, I would suggest reviewing the epic of Gilgamesh's and his friend Enkidu travel to the CedarForest - the mountain of the gods. As many scholars have effectively argued - this was Lebanon. See:

http://www.slowmotiondoomsday.com/boulay15e.html

[mikeledo]

Eden was located in two places, Cosmically it was in the ancient constellation of Asad. On earth in was in Dilmun. The text about the rivers was added at a later date and should not be taken literally by serious scholars.

[eprom]

Eden was located in two places, Cosmically it was in the ancient constellation of Asad. On earth in was in Dilmun. The text about the rivers was added at a later date and should not be taken literally by serious scholars.

I do agree with you that the Sumerians version of Dilmun was a picture of Eden within their mythology, but look where Dilmun was located.

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...dex&page_id=21 I am interested to know more about the inspiration of astronomy on Assyrian mythology, and how you feel this influenced the Bible.

[mikeledo]

I do agree with you that the Sumerians version of Dilmun was a picture of Eden within their mythology, but look where Dilmun was located.

http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/mo...dex&page_id=21 I am interested to know more about the inspiration of astronomy on Assyrian mythology, and how you feel this influenced the Bible.

My contention is the Bible was originally a cosmic myth. The stories from creation through the crowning of Solomon (properly edited) are about the constellations. The same is true of Ovid's mythology, Egypt, Babylon etc.

Since the stars were the heavens they must reflect upon God and were also used as prophecy. Real people and events also played a role in establishing the myths and meanings of the constellations.

The Bible was a living document. Scribes were constantly adding to it. Many changes to the Bible were due to cultural influences based on a different perception of a constellation(s). If one reads the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, it is apparent additions were still being made to the text as many passages appear in the scrolls, that are not in our Bible. The final editing of the OT was most likely in the second century AD.

I am pretty much alone in my theories and ideas....for the present.

[eprom]

My contention is the Bible was originally a cosmic myth. The stories from creation through the crowning of Solomon (properly edited) are about the constellations. The same is true of Ovid's mythology, Egypt, Babylon etc. . . I am pretty much alone in my theories and ideas....for the present.

I believe this is a premise that been suggested over and over again. Here are some research notes:
http://www.smoe.org/arcana/astrol6.html

And a web site on the issue:
http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/bible_astrology.htm

I’m interested in the issue for different reasons, but I would like to know what you’re working on. Can you give me an overview?