Originally posted by whag
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Is God Immoral?
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Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by whag View PostAnd you're rallying for their prosecution in what way?Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostHis statement wasn't in a book of prophecy or in that sort of context at all. I take it more as the sort of comforting thing that people say at funerals (see you soon someday, etc.). At that point in time, the Jews did not have the full picture of what happens after death, and would not until Jesus came. (Much of the Old Testament is indicative of that; there are not many hints of life after death in there.) David was no exception.
"23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."
"go to him"?
I am pretty sure if David was going to him, then "him" must have been in heaven, seeing as how David called Jesus "my Lord" (Psalm 110:1)
John Gill says heaven
"I shall go to him;
to the state of the dead, to the grave, where his body was, or would be; to heaven and eternal happiness, where his soul was, as he comfortably hoped and believed: from whence it appears, that the Old Testament saints did not suppose an annihilation at death; but believed the immortality of the soul, a future state after death of eternal life and bliss:"
Matthew Henry says
"I shall go to him. First, To him to the grave. Note, The consideration of our own death should moderate our sorrow at the death of our relations. It is the common lot; instead of mourning for their death, we should think of our own: and, whatever loss we have of them now, we shall die shortly, and go to them. Secondly, To him to heaven, to a state of blessedness, which even the Old Testament saints had some expectation of. Godly parents have great reason to hope concerning their children that die in infancy that it is well with their souls in the other world; for the promise is to us and to our seed, which shall be performed to those that do not put a bar in their own door, as infants do not..."
John Wesley says:
"12:23 I fast - Seeing fasting and prayer cannot now prevail with God for his life. I shall go to him - Into the state of the dead in which he is, and into heaven, where I doubt not I shall find him."
so I am not the only one who interprets that as more than just a hope on David's part,
a hope on our part in the present day, but not on David who was sort of an insider back then.To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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Originally posted by whag View PostYes, just spearing through the stomach. How else do you imagine the Midianite boys were dispatched?
does that comfort youTo say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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Originally posted by jordanriver View Post2 Samuel 12:23
"23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."
"go to him"?
I am pretty sure if David was going to him, then "him" must have been in heaven, seeing as how David called Jesus "my Lord" (Psalm 110:1)
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Originally posted by Enjolras View PostI think all that was meant in David's day was the grave. The concept of 'heaven' as understood in the NT came much later.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostThe only way I have. The ballot box.
If mothers were throwing babies off cliffs as a propitiation to strange gods, I don't think voting would be my first action. You really don't believe mothers are essentially doing that, do you?
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Originally posted by whag View PostWhat an incredibly ineffectual response to the holocaust: voting for career-minded fools who couldn't care less about you or America's children.
If mothers were throwing babies off cliffs as a propitiation to strange gods, I don't think voting would be my first action. You really don't believe mothers are essentially doing that, do you?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by jordanriver View PostI am not sure the Hebrews obeyed.
does that comfort you
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Originally posted by Enjolras View PostI think all that was meant in David's day was the grave. The concept of 'heaven' as understood in the NT came much later."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIn the days of the Roman Empire, it was common for female newborns to be killed by exposure. What did the early Christians do? They didn't take armed action against the government. They rescued children they could and raised them themselves. You see that today with the charity efforts of many Christians through adoption and physical care of pregnant mothers.
And it's not true that most pro-life Christians do anything of the sort you described. If it were, there wouldn't be a waiting list of orphans waiting for homes and mothers on food stamps.
And all this circles back to the problem of Midianite infanticide and Christians making the same arguments that pro-aborts make to defend that infanticide.
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Originally posted by whag View PostYou should make up your mind. Either you have the courage of your convictions that killing Midianite children was a tender mercy, or you stand behind your belief that the Hebrews never received the mandate to commit infanticide.
huh??????????
where do you get the idea that I said that "the Hebrews never received the mandate to commit infanticide"
here is all I said:
Originally posted by jordanriver View PostI am not sure the Hebrews obeyed.
does that comfort you
that does not mean they never got their marching orders.
I already said at the beginning of this thread (POST 4) that I didn't think the Hebrews followed through on the command to permanently remove the pagan cultures (follow through implies something to follow through on)To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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Originally posted by whag View PostThey sacrificed instead of pretending their voting was real effort or effectual in any way
And it's not true that most pro-life Christians do anything of the sort you described. If it were, there wouldn't be a waiting list of orphans waiting for homes and mothers on food stamps.
And all this circles back to the problem of Midianite infanticide and Christians making the same arguments that pro-aborts make to defend that infanticide."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by jordanriver View Posthuh??????????
where do you get the idea that I said that "the Hebrews never received the mandate to commit infanticide"
here is all I said:
that does not mean they never got their marching orders.
I already said at the beginning of this thread (POST 4) that I didn't think the Hebrews followed through on the command to permanently remove the pagan cultures (follow through implies something to follow through on)
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Originally posted by whag View PostWhat an incredibly ineffectual response to the holocaust: voting for career-minded fools who couldn't care less about you or America's children.
?
I actually agree with you on this point..
I don't like the idea of voting for someone else (i.e. representatives) to do my voting for me. I know how to vote.
Direct democracy (or ballot initiatives) seems like a better idea when it comes to social issues.To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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