Is God Immoral?

[Jedidiah]

Have you ever tried to reason with a donkey!?

I see folks trying to do just that on TWeb often.

[whag]

No... God can give an ass the ability to talk - just look at you! Sorry, I couldn't resist!

See you do support the killing of unborn human beings. And bet you would support the killing of the just born just like the atheist professors I quoted.

No, I actually haven't divulged my views on abortion. I'm just saying that you're sitting on your tuchus indicates you don't think it's the holocaust you describe. If I thought there was a holocaust, I wouldn't be limiting my action to a few posts on theologyweb.

[Enjolras]

This is far more evil that the "atrocities" of the OT. The same folks who holler foul at the latter, approve the former.

Nope. I disapprove of both.

[Jedidiah]

You're conflating the issue of reproductive control

It is not a conflation at all. Just like Moloch in the OT mothers are sacrificing their babies for benefits they imagine will come from it.

[whag]

No... God can give an ass the ability to talk - just look at you! Sorry, I couldn't resist!

This is far more evil that the "atrocities" of the OT. The same folks who holler foul at the latter, approve the former.

This is a boilerplate response to deflect the horror of stabbing war orphans. I'd wager you'd take up arms against a neighborhood baby sacrifice party--as would I--while sitting on your duff at the discovery of zygote disposal. Which is what most "pro-life" Christians do.

[whag]

No... God can give an ass the ability to talk - just look at you! Sorry, I couldn't resist!

It is not a conflation at all. Just like Moloch in the OT mothers are sacrificing their babies for benefits they imagine will come from it.

And you're rallying for their prosecution in what way?

[Gnostic Bishop]

This is an offshoot of a previous thread. And when I say God, I mean the God of the Bible. First, let me explain my position - I too find some things, especially in the Old Testament ethically difficult to justify - and they often seem inconsistent with the teaching of Christ. But I start with the teachings and example of Christ and move backward to the O.T. since I believe that Christ revealed most clearly the mind and heart of God the Father. OK, now for our secular friends. I'm not sure why they find some of the commands and acts of God so morally distasteful. It seems to me that these objections are merely culturally driven emotional responses. I mean if they were raised in Feudal Japan for instance I doubt very much if they would find these acts repugnant. As a matter of fact they would probably laud such a God for taking vengeance. So are our moral objections reduced to mere cultural conditioning? And if they are why should anyone take these objections seriously?

Hi Seer.

Morals are developed by creatures who need rules to live good live together with each other within groups.

If someone never lives with anyone the way God did for untold millennia, then he would never develop a moral sense as he would not need it.

God then cannot have morals and would be amoral.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

[Enjolras]

There were no atrocities in the OT. What we see there are things that we are not able to really understand. Things that we would find horrible if done by fallible humans. We are not really able to fully understand no matter how they are explained, or explained away.

The destruction of the Twin Towers was no atrocity. What we see there are things that we are not able to really understand. Things that we would find horrible if done by fallible humans. We are not really able to fully understand no matter how they are explained, or explained away.

The beheadings of ISIS are no atrocity. What we see there are things that we are not able to really understand. Things that we would find horrible if done by fallible humans. We are not really able to fully understand no matter how they are explained, or explained away.

Let me tell you a story. My dad took me to the doctor once when I was small. We went to get a smallpox vaccination (yeah, a long time ago). When I realized what was happening I was horrified. This doctor I had trusted was hurting me, as my dad was letting him do it. It was horrible until later when he, my dad, explained what and why. Eventually we may understand the things that seem so horrible. Or maybe not. I trust my Dad however.

You might feel differently if the doctor slit your throat instead.

[jordanriver]

You're conflating the issue of reproductive control--which your side has completely bungled--with sacrifice. A zygote is not a baby. Partial birth abortions aren't propitiations by any stretch of the imagination.

That being said, your justifications of biblical genocide precisely mirror that of the most rabid pro-abort.

We are not omniscient.
We are not justified killing babies because we do not know which babies are going to be the next Stalin, Pol Pot, or George Tiller.

Bible - God OTOH is omniscient and cannot be second-guessed.

...OTOH, the Hebrews should have known better than to disobey and let their pity for poor innocent Phoenician (Canaanite) babies allow pagan human sacrificing spread throughout the Mediterranean (like Carthage where thousands of urns of victims have been discovered)
...I mean, omniscient or not, you didn't need no psychic hot line to know Amalekite and Midianite and Phoenician babies, if allowed to live, are going to grow up to sacrifice babies, spread human sacrificing, and kill Hebrews

[seer]

Nope. I disapprove of both.

Why?

[whag]

No... God can give an ass the ability to talk - just look at you! Sorry, I couldn't resist!

We are not omniscient.
We are not justified killing babies because we do not know which babies are going to be the next Stalin, Pol Pot, or George Tiller.

Bible - God OTOH is omniscient and cannot be second-guessed.

...OTOH, the Hebrews should have known better than to disobey and let their pity for poor innocent Phoenician (Canaanite) babies allow pagan human sacrificing spread throughout the Mediterranean (like Carthage where thousands of urns of victims have been discovered)
...I mean, omniscient or not, you didn't need no psychic hot line to know Amalekite and Midianite and Phoenician babies, if allowed to live, are going to grow up to sacrifice babies, spread human sacrificing, and kill Hebrews

Your logic is whacked. If those children were adopted by the Hebrews, what makes you think they would've sacrificed babies when grown?

I reiterate you're repackaging the arguments that rabid proaborts use to justify abortion.

[Enjolras]

Why?

Because they harm innocent humans. Why do you approve of the killing of babies?

[jordanriver]

Nothing deserves the wrath of a God like an baby. Crying and babbling all the time. Makes you sick. Oh, and donkeys. They are known to be so dang stubborn.

.well yeah
killing donkeys, flooding the planet killing all flesh
..and next, the fire...

I guess you're right, God acts like He's God or something

[jordanriver]

Your logic is whacked. If those children were adopted by the Hebrews, what makes you think they would've sacrificed babies when grown?

I reiterate you're repackaging the arguments that rabid proaborts use to justify abortion.

Ah, so Bible God could have been mistaken?

[Enjolras]

.well yeah
killing donkeys, flooding the planet killing all flesh
..and next, the fire...

I guess you're right, God acts like He's God or something

Exactly. He acts likes something...to be sure.