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Thread: Does anybody know who the 144,000 are?

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    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    Does anybody know who the 144,000 are?

    Like, is there a list? I'm guessing the Apostles and the seven angels were (thought to be) among the number.

    Did Rutherford think he was anointed?

    Are any still alive?
    Last edited by Kelp(p); 12-02-2014 at 09:01 AM.
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

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    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelp(p) View Post
    Like, is there a list? I'm guessing the Apostles and the seven angels were (thought to be) among the number.

    Did Rutherford think he was anointed?

    Are any still alive?
    Revelation being a book of "signs", I'm not sure the 144,000 number is literal. The number 12 (the tribes) is squared then multiplied by 1,000 to get 144,000, which could well be a way of doubly saying "completeness" - the redeemed will surely be in Heaven.

    In both Rev 7 and 14, they are obviously "the redeemed", having God's mark on their foreheads.

    If we take the number, 144,000, literally, then we should also take literally the statement that these 144,000 come from the 12 tribes, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, so they must necessarily be Israelites.

    I don't think the angels would be among that number, as they aren't "redeemed".

    I don't think we have any JWs on Tweb, but they, of course, have taken this number quite literally, seemingly unable to understand the fact that Revelation is quite often very symbolic.
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 12-02-2014 at 12:31 PM.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  3. Amen Kelp(p) amen'd this post.
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    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    Actually, that's tracking the people who took communion. The J-Dubs believe that only 144,000 were chosen to be born again from the Apostles to 1935. Only they get to take communion. All the rest just set a table with bread and wine once a year and sit around staring at it. Oddly, if they do decide to take communion, the leadership doesn't stop them though apparently it does shame them:
    Over the years some, even ones newly baptized, have suddenly begun to partake. In a number of cases, after a while they acknowledged that this was an error. Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. They asked for God’s merciful understanding. And they continue to serve him as fine, loyal Christians, having the hope of everlasting life on earth.

    There is no need for any of us to be concerned if a person begins to partake of the emblems or ceases to do so. It really is not up to us whether someone actually has been anointed with holy spirit and called to heavenly life or not. Recall Jesus’ solid assurance: "I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep." Just as assuredly, Jehovah knows those whom he has chosen as spiritual sons. There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives. Yet, even as these truly anointed ones prove faithful till death, in line for the crown of life, the other sheep, who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, can look forward to surviving the impending great tribulation.—2 Timothy 4:6-8; Revelation 2:10.
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

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    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    The idea of only 144,000 in 1900 years seems weird.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    Really. Everyone else is just a "grandchild of God," not a child.

    Although, in 2007, they actually changed the prophecy! Now anybody could be anointed, but the crazy psychological pressure I mentioned above can still happen.
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

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    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    I guess I got my answer. They only actually count the anointed by who takes the communion and is good enough. http://christianity.stackexchange.co...rate-communion
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

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    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    My folks are JW so I have a little information. The 144,000 being the only ones who go to heaven does not mean they are the only ones saved. All good JWs who are not among the 144,000 will dwell eternally in what amounts to a restored sinless Eden. So there are no limits to salvation. They even seem to agree, according to a fellow who comes around once in a while (having accepted that I am not ready to be converted, but my folks are JW . . .) ready to accept that even non JW believers can be saved. I think this is a recent position, not sure.

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    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    My folks are JW so I have a little information. The 144,000 being the only ones who go to heaven does not mean they are the only ones saved. All good JWs who are not among the 144,000 will dwell eternally in what amounts to a restored sinless Eden. So there are no limits to salvation. They even seem to agree, according to a fellow who comes around once in a while (having accepted that I am not ready to be converted, but my folks are JW . . .) ready to accept that even non JW believers can be saved. I think this is a recent position, not sure.
    So... the New Earth! What's funny is that some ex-JW website pretty much denied the physical resurrection, presumably as a reaction to this doctrine.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    My folks are JW so I have a little information. The 144,000 being the only ones who go to heaven does not mean they are the only ones saved. All good JWs who are not among the 144,000 will dwell eternally in what amounts to a restored sinless Eden. So there are no limits to salvation. They even seem to agree, according to a fellow who comes around once in a while (having accepted that I am not ready to be converted, but my folks are JW . . .) ready to accept that even non JW believers can be saved. I think this is a recent position, not sure.
    When you ARE ready to be converted, give me a call first, ok?

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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