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Thread: Does anybody know who the 144,000 are?

  1. #11
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    When you ARE ready to be converted, give me a call first, ok?
    I'll talk it over with you in heaven before I convert. OKAY?

    It is a funny thing about JWs. If someone is in "society" and leaves they are to be shunned until they return, and even when returned are second class citizens. I have a cousin who is also JW who planned to convert me while I was down visiting. My mother told her not to do it. My folks are afraid that I might join and then leave. They could no longer talk to me. So what does that mean?

  2. #12
    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    So... the New Earth! What's funny is that some ex-JW website pretty much denied the physical resurrection, presumably as a reaction to this doctrine.
    The JWs believe Christ was not physically resurrected.
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

  3. #13
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelp(p) View Post
    The JWs believe Christ was not physically resurrected.
    Where did you get such a ignorant, stupid idea. Via my ex-wife I had over 20 years experience with the JWs and never did I hear such a stupidity. Of course you can take issue with the apostle Paul and scripture!!! (try reading Romans 6; 1 Cor 15). I suffer in my current body numerous disabilities, so no way do I want to be resurrected in my current state!!! Under the Christian hope/promise (via A.Paul) I am gauranted that "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption"

    Good idea if you read scripture and poke your head out of your colon inspection occasionally.
    Last edited by apostoli; 12-03-2014 at 08:22 AM.

  4. #14
    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    Duuuude, calm down.

    I should have been more precise. JW's believe that Jesus was not raised in the same body in which He died.
    "...many persons believe that Christ took his fleshly body to heaven. They point to the fact that when Christ was raised from the dead, his fleshly body was no longer in the tomb (Mark 16:5-7). Also, after his death Jesus appeared to his disciples in a fleshly body to show them that he was alive. Once He even had the apostle Thomas put his hand into the hole in His side so that Thomas would believe that He had actually been resurrected (John 20:24-27) Does this not prove that Christ was raised alive in the same body in which he was put to death? No it does not." (You Can Live Forever on Paradise Earth, pp. 143-144).
    They believe that Jesus' original body dissolved in atoms in the tomb.

    Instead, the JWs came up with this weird idea that there are physical bodies and there are "spiritual bodies." Everybody resurrected gets one of these spiritual bodies. It's ironic that they bash orthodox Christianity for allegedly picking up the idea of the immortal soul from Greek philosophy and yet the closest thing in the rest of the world to their "spiritual body" malarkey is the Hindu idea of a "subtle body."

    In contrast, the orthodox teaching is that the very same physical body we died in is raised and rendered incorruptible and death free. See the difference?

    Watchtower Online Library: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989262
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

  5. #15
    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apostoli View Post
    Where did you get such a ignorant, stupid idea. Via my ex-wife I had over 20 years experience with the JWs and never did I hear such a stupidity. Of course you can take issue with the apostle Paul and scripture!!! (try reading Romans 6; 1 Cor 15). I suffer in my current body numerous disabilities, so no way do I want to be resurrected in my current state!!! Under the Christian hope/promise (via A.Paul) I am gauranted that "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption"

    Good idea if you read scripture and poke your head out of your colon inspection occasionally.
    It is warm Christlike admonitions like this that restore my hope in the future of Christianity.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  6. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  7. #16
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelp(p) View Post
    The JWs believe Christ was not physically resurrected.
    The physical resurrection of the saints. He didn't think we would be living in a physical universe.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  8. #17
    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    Huh? Sorry, I don't follow.
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

  9. #18
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelp(p) View Post
    Huh? Sorry, I don't follow.
    I wasn't refering to Jesus' resurrection body. I know that Paul's argument means that denying any physical resurrection of the dead would include Jesus, but I doubt the website guy was thinking that far ahead. Seemed like a reaction to JW theology.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  10. #19
    tWebber Kelp(p)'s Avatar
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    Oh, yeah. That was a quote from one of the Watchtower books. The JWs believe the Saints will have spiritual bodies as well, but they'll mostly be living on a Paradise Earth. They also explain things like how Thomas was able to touch His wounds as Jesus assuming a throw-away physical body.

    It reaches Ptolemaic levels of complexity.
    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

    A neat video of dead languages!

  11. #20
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelp(p) View Post
    Oh, yeah. That was a quote from one of the Watchtower books. The JWs believe the Saints will have spiritual bodies as well, but they'll mostly be living on a Paradise Earth. They also explain things like how Thomas was able to touch His wounds as Jesus assuming a throw-away physical body.

    It reaches Ptolemaic levels of complexity.
    So the ex-JW was wrong about both JW and Christian views of heaven? Maybe I should find the link...
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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