Dating and the Christian Man

[Teallaura]

Okay, this is a tough one, I know. We live in a sexually promiscuous society. As a woman, I can tell you there is enormous pressure on us girls to have sex prior to marriage. I'm interested in the attitudes, pressures and views of the guys. Should men remain pure until they marry? Should a Christian man expect sexual relations as part of a dating relationship or insist upon them? How powerful are the pressures on men to engage in sexual activity outside marriage? Would you think less of/dump a woman who would not have sex in a dating relationship? Whatta ya think, guys?

[Gideon Brown]

Okay, this is a tough one, I know.

I don't think it is...

As a woman, I can tell you there is enormous pressure on us girls to have sex prior to marriage.

From who? Anyone whose opinion you care about?

Should men remain pure until they marry?

Yes. That is the only way God wants for us.

Should a Christian man expect sexual relations as part of a dating relationship or insist upon them?

Certainly not, and frankly, I would question the commitment to Christ of a man who did insist on them.

How powerful are the pressures on men to engage in sexual activity outside marriage?

I can only speak for myself, and I say that they are pretty much slim to non-existent because I really don't give a rat's behind for the opinion of anyone who would exert such pressure.

Would you think less of/dump a woman who would not have sex in a dating relationship? Whatta ya think, guys?

I would dump a girl who would have sex in a dating relationship. You need to realize how very, very attractive and special a girl is who will not lower herself to the standards of the world. In contrast, a 'Christian' girl who will have sex with you is, well, just another brick in the wall. Not only that, but any decent Christian man should lose a great deal of respect for someone who will have sex with him outside of marriage (I certainly would).

[GrayPilgrim]

Okay, this is a tough one, I know. We live in a sexually promiscuous society. As a woman, I can tell you there is enormous pressure on us girls to have sex prior to marriage. I'm interested in the attitudes, pressures and views of the guys. Should men remain pure until they marry? Should a Christian man expect sexual relations as part of a dating relationship or insist upon them? How powerful are the pressures on men to engage in sexual activity outside marriage? Would you think less of/dump a woman who would not have sex in a dating relationship? Whatta ya think, guys?

I think what makes this tough is western cultural mores and their conflict with Scripture. That does not change the end result, but just shows that in our pornographic culture it will be all that harder. Adding further burden to this problem is the marriage age which is going up. So that when my parents were married at 22 they were considered to be older as a lot of people were getting married at a younger age (both of my grandmothers were in their teen when they were married). No adding to how this is difficult is that puberty is actually beginning younger and younger, it is a product of the western diets higher in fat. Thus we have biology fighting against cultural mores which has people getting married (if at all) later. That is the culture in which we live, it is not determinative, just the stage on which our discussion is set.

Now if you turn on tv, even those shows that are supposed to be "family friendly" the comercials are of a sexual nature (beer comercials anyone?). So then we have the Bible setting for us a different standard, yet we spend more time in front of the Babylonian Idiot Box which is setting a world in which it is normal to go out meet someone and have sex. I heard Michael J. Fox interviewed last week for instance asked how he as a fatehr has dealt with (or will in the case of his daughters) sex and drugs. He said it must be done divorced from morals. So we see that we are being told that htese are not moral issues. The Clinton Scandals have not helped with this so that kids are convinced that "it" isn't sex. So we see that there is this huge pressure to conform to the world. This does not make it right in fact Jesus' words int eh Sermon on the Mount show that it is dangerous to even look at a woman to lust for her, as that is the same as adultery, it contaiminates the person on the inside just as much as the overt act.

So while it is an easy answer, it is a difficult way to live in our culture, but as Jesus also said in the SOTM, "You righteousness must surpass that of the Scribes and the Pharisees." So it is difficult on all sides, and men are pigs (and those are the Christian ones...)

[Spiritus Naturae]

For myself, who came to Christianity as an adult, I did my fair share of sowing oats as it were. I think it is important to keep sex in perspective. I hear a lot of non-Christians pontificate about how Christians are 'hung up' about sex and that Christians see it as something that is evil etc. This of course is absolutely ridiculous. How can something instituted, created by God be evil? It is the abuse and misuse of sex that is evil. As a Christian man I now understand sex to be a meaningful and beautiful intimate expression of the love that I and my wife share for one another. Having engaged in that with her prior to marriage would have tainted the meaning and beauty of the experience God intended for us within the convines of a marriage covenant.

Jonathan

[One Bad Pig]

From who? Anyone whose opinion you care about?

I think she's talking in general. It's obvious from just looking at the covers of women's magazines. The world's opinion is that a woman should use sex to make a man love her enough to marry her.

I can only speak for myself, and I say that they are pretty much slim to non-existent because I really don't give a rat's behind for the opinion of anyone who would exert such pressure.

That's not the case for most people, however. There was enormous pressure on me to have sex when I was in the Navy. By the grace of God, I never gave in though.

The rest of your points were spot-on.

[Calvinist4Him]

Okay, this is a tough one, I know. We live in a sexually promiscuous society. As a woman, I can tell you there is enormous pressure on us girls to have sex prior to marriage. I'm interested in the attitudes, pressures and views of the guys. Should men remain pure until they marry? Should a Christian man expect sexual relations as part of a dating relationship or insist upon them? How powerful are the pressures on men to engage in sexual activity outside marriage? Would you think less of/dump a woman who would not have sex in a dating relationship? Whatta ya think, guys?

This is a difficult subject, especially for me. But I also think this is a subject where it is BY FAR easier to talk the talk than walk the walk. For the record, to add credibility to my words. I am 29 almost 30 years old, a male, and though I have been tempted, I have remained pure.

How powerful are the pressures on men? Most of the pressures I deal with, come from within, and sometimes they are so strong that I am divided on the issue of pre-marital sex. During those moments, I feel kind of like Paul, when he wrote Romans (Chapter 7). I know what is right, I know what I should do, but I lack the strength within myself to overcome the desires of my carnal mind and flesh.

It's really easy for me to say what I believe, that is, I believe EVERY professing Christian, both male AND female, should remain pure until marriage. That is what God desires, that is His will for the Christian.

I thank God for his grace, when we fall into temptation, and we repent, and He picks us up and we experience forgiveness. Pre-marital sex is not the unforgivable sin, but we should realize, that the consequences of our sin, can be worse than the pleasure of sin, and just because God will forgive, that does not mean we will not have to live with the consequences.

Sometimes, knowing the consequences, can help a great deal in resisting powerful temptation.

The worst thing a Christian can do during times of temptation is chuck their mind out the window (so to speak). A mindless Christian is easy prey for falling into temptation.

[markporter]

oop, think I voted for the wrong one there, misread what it was saying.

[Gideon Brown]

I think she's talking in general.

Oh, I know, but the point still stands: if you are a Christian woman who is feeling pressured to have sex, you need to ask yourself why you are feeling that pressure. Do you really care about the opinion of magazines? Maybe a lot of people do, but I don't think they should.

The world's opinion is that a woman should use sex to make a man love her enough to marry her.

Hmmm... you know, I don't know if I could find the quote, but J. Budziszewski talks about this sort of thing somewhere. Your statement is correct, of course, but what Budziszewski says is essentially this: that when a woman uses sex to 'get a man to love her', she actually accomplishes the opposite of what she intends. When a man learns that a woman has so little self-respect that she will have casual sex with him just to get some 'love', he actually loses respect for her; thus, far from growing to 'love' her and care about her welfare, he grows to view her as just another object or toy. I think this is one reason there is so little real love in many modern relationships.

That's not the case for most people, however.

Well, I understand that. I've never been very peer-pressure-able.

By the grace of God, I never gave in though.

Awesome.


I'd also like to ask Laura if she would maybe clarify her question or something. I'm interested to know why you brought the topic up. I mean, did you really expect any different answers than the ones you've gotten? Do you know significant numbers of Christian men who think it is ok to have sex in a dating relationship? Just wondering.

[Calvinist4Him]

Oh, I know, but the point still stands: if you are a Christian woman who is feeling pressured to have sex, you need to ask yourself why you are feeling that pressure. Do you really care about the opinion of magazines? Maybe a lot of people do, but I don't think they should.

This is why I think "pressure" is a poor excuse. Everyone is "presurred" in one way or another. If I see a group of people being presurred to jump off of a cliff, should I feel "pressure" to do the same? If I did feel "pressured", would it not be a problem from within myself?

[Teallaura]

Oh, I know, but the point still stands: if you are a Christian woman who is feeling pressured to have sex, you need to ask yourself why you are feeling that pressure. Do you really care about the opinion of magazines? Maybe a lot of people do, but I don't think they should

Actually, magazines and media weren't what I had in mind (although an excellent point) - it's an issue of dating in general. There's a cultural expectation of it in the secular society and I was wondering about how that affects Christian men. Thus far, I've found the responses incredibly heartening.
And I have had men (allegedly Christian) pressure me even when I made it clear from the outset that I was a virgin and would be when I got home that night. I still am.

Hmmm... you know, I don't know if I could find the quote, but J. Budziszewski talks about this sort of thing somewhere. Your statement is correct, of course, but what Budziszewski says is essentially this: that when a woman uses sex to 'get a man to love her', she actually accomplishes the opposite of what she intends. When a man learns that a woman has so little self-respect that she will have casual sex with him just to get some 'love', he actually loses respect for her; thus, far from growing to 'love' her and care about her welfare, he grows to view her as just another object or toy. I think this is one reason there is so little real love in many modern relationships.

I think so, too. Further, I think it's a major factor in some of the self esteem issues we see in young girls.

Well, I understand that. I've never been very peer-pressure-able.

Me either - an advantage to being a geek. Or more likely a blessing from God.

Awesome.

Amen!

I'd also like to ask Laura if she would maybe clarify her question or something. I'm interested to know why you brought the topic up. I mean, did you really expect any different answers than the ones you've gotten? Do you know significant numbers of Christian men who think it is ok to have sex in a dating relationship? Just wondering.

I was afraid there might be, but no, this was what I expected - just a lot better than I hoped. I work professionally with STD's - the axiom (which I never really believed) is that 'everyone is having sex with someone' (okay, it is true if they are infected). I like my work and I help people, but it gets discouraging sometimes. I had pretty much given up hope that it would even be possible to find a man who was also pure at my age (quit snickering Tuck! Just cause I was in college before you were born! ) - now I'm feeling a lot better. Hard to explain - it gets tough sometimes when everyone else seems to regard virginity as some kind of freak occurance. I talk to little girls all the time who lost their virginity in a desperate attempt to get a boyfriend - sometimes it's hard to remember that there are real men still out there who have integrity and live out their beliefs. I believed it - now you guys have confirmed it. Thank-you.

[Jephunneh]

Okay, this is a tough one, I know. We live in a sexually promiscuous society. As a woman, I can tell you there is enormous pressure on us girls to have sex prior to marriage. I'm interested in the attitudes, pressures and views of the guys. Should men remain pure until they marry? Should a Christian man expect sexual relations as part of a dating relationship or insist upon them? How powerful are the pressures on men to engage in sexual activity outside marriage? Would you think less of/dump a woman who would not have sex in a dating relationship? Whatta ya think, guys?

I'll try to answer by giving my own experience. My wife and I dated for about 2 years. We did things that, looking back now, were not right. We never went "all the way" but we came mighty close a few times. I am so glad we waited, yet kinda sad we did the other stuff. I understand the importance of waiting until you are married, now 13 years later. There is an intimacy, a closeness that sex gives and if it is done haphazardly, or just to please a dating partner, it robs the person of the joy of having that oneness with that person you will spend the rest of your life with. Before I met her I dated a few times yet never actually had sex. I wanted to, believe you me. It gets tough for a young male. Especially today, being bombarded with sexual images and thoughts from everywhere. But, it is possible to wait. Self-control is one of the fruits mentioned in Galations 5.
If I had to give advice I would say abstaining is the best way at any time with any person. Sex is a great gift. My wife's virginity was the best wedding gift she gave me. We are one. We are complete.

[One Bad Pig]

at my age (quit snickering Tuck! Just cause I was in college before you were born! )

Since you mentioned it, how old are you?

[Teallaura]

Six years older than Jephunneh - exactly.

[One Bad Pig]

Six years older than Jephunneh - exactly.

You also share your birthday with my older stepsister (who is exactly 1 year older than Jephunneh).

[Jephunneh]

You also share your birthday with my older stepsister (who is exactly 1 year older than Jephunneh).