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Thread: The only true God (John 17:3)

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    The only true God (John 17:3)

    John 17:3
    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent (John 17:3, KJV).

    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe when the Lord Jesus said "the only true God" in reference to the Father this proves that the Lord Jesus is not God.
    http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/trinity/
    However, the Lord Jesus wasn't denying that He was God but was saying that the Father is the only true God in relation to false gods. The "true God" is always used in Scripture this way.
    a. 2 Chronicles 15:3 - Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.
    b. Jeremiah 10:10-11 - But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
    c. 1 Thessalonians 1:9 - For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God
    d. 1 John 5:20-21 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

    2. Notable scholars agree:
    a. NIDNTT: in Jn. 17:3, monos is linked with alethinos, true, in contrast to the deceptive appearance (pseudos) of all alleged gods and revealers (2:724, One, K.H. Bartels).
    b. Thayer: ton theon, the one, true God, in contrast with the polytheism of the Gentiles (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, ginwskw, page 117).
    c. Trench: But He is ἀληθινός (1 Thess. 1:9; John 17:3; Isai. 65:16; == ‘verus’), very God, as distinguished from idols and all other false gods, the dreams of the diseased fancy of man, with no substantial existence in the world of realities (Richard C. Trench, alethes, alethinos, #8)
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...fm?sectionID=8
    d. Vine: John 7:28; 17:3; 1 Thess. 1:9; Rev. 6:10; these declare that God fulfils the meaning of His Name, He is "very God," in distinction from all other gods, false gods (Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, True, page 1170).
    e. NIDOTTE - Asa demonstrated unquestionable religious zeal, even to the point of removing his own (grand)mother (cf. 1 Kgs 15:2, 10) Maacah from her place (15:3 ) - no easy feat, to be sure, given the idolatrous tendencies his father had (15:3) (NIDOTTE 4:413, Asa, Daniel Schibler).

    3. The same Greek word for "only" (monos) that is applied to the Father in John 17:3 is used in Romans 16:27 and Revelation 15:4.
    a. To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. (Romans 16:27)
    The fact that the Lord Jesus shares the same wisdom as what "only" God possesses (omniscience) proves that the Lord Jesus is God.
    See Acts 1:24-25; Ephesians 4:10; 1 Peter 2:25 and Revelation 5:6, 12 in http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ience-of-Jesus
    And also see http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ce%29%E2%80%8F
    Jesus as the heart-knower of all (καρδιογνώστης = omniscience)‏
    b. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. (Revelation 15:4)
    The fact that the Lord Jesus shares the same holiness as what "only" God possesses proves that the Lord Jesus is God.
    See Peter: The Worship of the Lord Jesus
    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...the-Lord-Jesus
    Last edited by foudroyant; 01-29-2014 at 09:24 PM.

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    I agree!

    (but you're still flooding the JW forum )

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    Hear ya on that.
    I'll be taking some time off for awhile.
    Have to catch up on a few things.

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    tWebber
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    Several things you miss in your diatribe:

    1 All trinitarians (at least those that subscribe to the ecumenical creeds (ie: the Nicene Creed of 325 and/or the Constantinople Creed of 381) all affirm that there is one God = the Father (ie: "I (we)believe in one God the Father...". In acclamation the Father alone is the only true God, because only he is proved to have kept his promises in sending the Son (However, in the Gospel of John there is a consistent message of equivalency eg; John 1:1, John 3, 12:14, 14:9, 17:3).

    2. The creeds trinitarian creeds distinguish the Son (Jesus Christ) as our Lord (ie:owner/master) who is God from God, true God from true God, hommousius. That is: unlike the Father, the Son is not autotheos (God of himself). The Son's participation in the Godhead is derivitive. As Ratzinger (former pope Benedict) wrote (when he was Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) during the reconciliation talks between the eastern and western churches "the Father is the source and cause of the Son".

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    From your post:
    The Son's participation in the Godhead is derivative.
    and
    "the Father is the source and cause of the Son".
    ----------
    Does that mean the Son was created?

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    Quote Originally Posted by foudroyant View Post
    From your post:
    The Son's participation in the Godhead is derivative.
    and
    "the Father is the source and cause of the Son".
    ----------
    Does that mean the Son was created?
    Nope!!! It simply makes the Father (as Aquinas put it) the first principle of the Godhead or as the Greek fathers describe it, the source and cause of the monarchy.

    In Greek (philosophical) thought to be God is to be unchangeable. So if the Father created the Son then God became Father so is not God given he changed. A simpler explanation is that given there is no beginnings or ends in eternity and God exists in eternity, and the Son was begotten in eternity then the Son had no beginning as we might conceive the idea. However only the Father is understood to be unbegotten, whereas the Son is understood (from scripture) as "begooten not made". An Athanasian type argument is that the Son before being begotten was in potential...

    An aside: Given numerous scriptures tell us that the Son made/created all things made/created, it is obvious he was not created! Unless of course one contemplates that the Son created himself!!!

    ps: I made a typo in my previous post citing Jn 12:14, it should have been Jn 12:45. Also I made a spelling mistake: hommosius should have been homooúsios.

    pss: Sparko just before the big crash of this website had challenged me in asking if I advocated three Gods. Now I have the opportunity to answer, my response is "No', and likewise I do not advocate "one person three modes of existence" as JWs, Christadelphians and others misrepresent the teaching of Trinitarianism. I conform to the majority church and advocate three distinct persons with one mode of existence or if we appeal to the biblical usage of ousia, three hypostases one value/property or three hypostases one physis.
    Last edited by apostoli; 01-31-2014 at 03:27 PM.

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