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  • #76
    Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
    Hopefully not at the expense of Pauline doctrine.
    But of course not:

    He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
      But of course not:

      He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
      And of course that was not written to unbelievers who rejected the gospel of salvation in Christ alone.

      Comment


      • #78
        I'll just add Gill's commentary on the passage for more detailed illumination:

        ---------------------------

        To them who by patient continuance in well doing,.... These words are descriptive of one sort of persons, to whom God will render according to their works; and must be understood not of the Gentiles, the best and most moralized among them; for they sought after worldly things, after human wisdom, and popular applause, and not after God, his honour and glory, nor after immortality, which is only brought to light by the Gospel; nor of the pharisaical Jews, who sought for righteousness by the works of the law, and honour and glory from men, and not from God; nor of any unregenerate persons, but only of such who have the true principles of grace implanted in them, whether Jews or Gentiles: now the things which these men seek after are

        glory; not the glory of this world, nor any from the men of it; but the glory of God and Christ; to be glorious within and without, by the grace and righteousness of Christ here, and to enjoy eternal glory with him hereafter.

        Honour; not that which Adam had in innocence, and did not abide in; but that which is, and abides with Christ, and which all the saints have, and shall have.

        Immortality; not the immortality of the soul, which is common to all; but the incorruption of the body, or the glorious resurrection of it to everlasting life at the great day, or the incorruptible crown, and never fading inheritance of the saints in light. The manner in which these things are sought is, "by patient continuance in well doing"; by doing good works, and by doing these good works well, from a principle of faith and love, and with a view to the glory of God; and by patiently enduring reproaches and sufferings for well doing, and by persevering therein: not that these things are to be had, or are expected by the saints to be had for the sake of patience and well doing; yet they may be sought for, and looked unto, as an encouragement to well doing, and continuance therein; and though not "for", yet "in" well doing there is a reward. These words do not express that for the sake of which glory is had; but only describe the persons who seek, and the manner in which they seek for it, to whom God will render

        eternal life, which he of his rich grace promised them before the world was, and of his free favour has put into the hands of Christ for them, and which, as a pure gift of grace, he bestows on them through him.

        ---------------------------

        Source: http://biblehub.com/romans/2-7.htm

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
          These words are descriptive of one sort of persons, to whom God will render according to their works; and must be understood not of the Gentiles, the best and most moralized among them; for they sought after worldly things, after human wisdom, and popular applause, and not after God, his honour and glory, nor after immortality, which is only brought to light by the Gospel
          Mere assertions do not convince.

          Try again.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            Mere assertions do not convince.

            Try again.
            So we can agree that if you are doing good sufficiently no matter who you are, you will be given eternal life, right? Well, Paul goes on to explain in Romans 3 that no one actually meets that righteous criteria - because of sins power - and all human beings - Jew and Gentile - stand under that power and thus are unable to do what God requires in a way that will bring them eternal life. Only therefore faith in Christ is going to be adequate to bring them into that status before a holy a God.

            Ultimately it is only the born again Christian who meets the righteous requirement of the law (Rom. 8:4), and their new nature produces a desire to persist in doing good through the governing principle of faith working through love.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
              So we can agree that if you are doing good sufficiently no matter who you are, you will be given eternal life, right? Well, Paul goes on to explain in Romans 3 that no one actually meets that righteous criteria - because of sins power - and all human beings - Jew and Gentile - stand under that power and thus are unable to do what God requires in a way that will bring them eternal life. Only therefore faith in Christ is going to be adequate to bring them into that status before a holy a God.

              Ultimately it is only the born again Christian who meets the righteous requirement of the law (Rom. 8:4), and their new nature produces a desire to persist in doing good through the governing principle of faith working through love.
              How then do you explain Abraham?

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                How then do you explain Abraham?
                "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56). I'll leave it there for now, and possibly discuss in more detail when I finish a grueling work schedule.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
                  "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56). I'll leave it there for now, and possibly discuss in more detail when I finish a grueling work schedule.
                  Perhaps if you didn't jump around from Romans 3 to 8, you might actually read Romans 4 to see what justified Abraham.

                  Hint: it wasn't faith in Jesus as the Messiah, raised from the dead.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                    Perhaps if you didn't jump around from Romans 3 to 8, you might actually read Romans 4 to see what justified Abraham.

                    Hint: it wasn't faith in Jesus as the Messiah, raised from the dead.
                    it was faith in God's promise Paprika Abraham was looking towards the Cross we are looking back at the cross. it is still by faith not works Abraham was saved even though he acted on his faith.
                    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 12-18-2014, 10:37 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                      it was faith in God's promise Paprika Abraham was looking towards the Cross
                      Asserted, and not shown. Have you read Romans 4?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Romans 4 explains that Abraham was justified by trusting God, not by works.
                        Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                          Romans 4 explains that Abraham was justified by trusting God, not by works.
                          Let me know when you can a) communicate effectively, and b) have anything pertinent to say as regards the disagreements between me and Scrawly.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                            Let me know when you can a) communicate effectively, and b) have anything pertinent to say as regards the disagreements between me and Scrawly.
                            Let me know when you can resist being an unmitigated ass.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Let me know when you can resist being an unmitigated ass.
                              If I'm ever interested in conversing with you on a topic, sure.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                                Let me know when you can a) communicate effectively, and b) have anything pertinent to say as regards the disagreements between me and Scrawly.
                                It's my thread. The current topic is only tangentially related to the opening post, and as such I was willing to let it go. But since you are trying to drag it further off topic by being a colossal jerk, you can leave. Please do not post in this thread again.

                                If you have a hard time understanding such a simple post (i.e., what I said earlier about Abraham), that is your problem, not mine. I don't know how you thought that what I said wasn't related to the current topic.
                                Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                                Comment

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