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Christians working on Sundays

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  • #91
    1. Sunday is the first day of the week. Not the seventh day. (Which technically would make it a work day.)
    2. The Sabbath day is still the 7th day of the week. (Exodus 20:8-11. 1 John 3:4.)
    3. ". . . Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. . . ." -- Colossians 2:16, 17.
    4. ". . . One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. . . ." -- Romans 14:5.
    5. Christ is my Sabbath rest, ". . . For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his. . . ." -- Hebrews 4:10.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      orthowhatsis and whatsadoxis?
      This:
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      As I get older, it just really hits me that we should spend more time doing what we clearly understand we SHOULD be doing, and less time arguing the same thing others have been arguing for 2000 years.
      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by QuantaFille
        Is it wrong to refuse to work on a Sunday if it means you are forcing someone else to work on that day against their beliefs?
        If your coworker knew that they would be required to work on Sundays when they took the job or they didn't let their employer know that they couldn't work on Sundays, then it falls on their conscious. If they let their employer know and their employer agreed, then making them work would fall on your conscious.

        Another question is this:
        Is it important that the day off from work be Sunday, or is that being too legalistic? The pastor of the church I went to before the one I am at now taught that it didn't matter which day of the week you had off from work, as long as you had a day of rest.
        I think if our heart is in the right place, then our attitude should not be that we can worship God in whatever way we see fit and God should be happy with what He gets, but rather we should desire to worship Him in the way that He wants to be worshiped. If God wasn't particular in the way He wanted to be worshipped, then he wouldn't have given precise instructions for how the Temple should be built or how priests were to behave. If people had decided that all God really wanted was a temple and they were free to build it in whatever way they saw fit, then I think they would have been disobedient. God only blessed the 7th day and only commanded Saturday as the day of rest. I used to think it was fine just so long as I took one day off a week, but I came to realize that was the way I wanted to worship God, not the way that God wanted to be worshiped.

        Also:
        Prior to this past June, I worked two jobs for seven months straight with almost no days off. I wanted to have a day off but couldn't afford it. Was it wrong for me to not take any time off work, even if my finances would have suffered for it? I was saving up so I could afford to visit my husband, as well as paying other various bills. To me, it would have been wrong for me to not visit him, as it is important that we spend at least some time together and it looks like it will be a while yet before we are able to live together.
        There were times in the Bible where there were conflicts about what had a higher priority. For instance, healing was work, so did healing on the Sabbath take priority over the command not to work? Some rabbis said yes, others said no, and Jesus came down on the side that said yes. So there might be something to saying that building your relationship with your husband might have a higher priority. On the other hand, part of what God seeks to teach us by keeping the Sabbath is to rely on him to take care of our needs, and God certainly knows your needs. In any case, working seven days of week for an extended period can be unhealthy.
        "Faith is nothing less than the will to keep one's mind fixed precisely on what reason has discovered to it." - Edward Feser

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I honestly don't understand why Christians struggle with what they can do on the Sabbath. Colossians 2:16 seems to make this pretty clear. As OBP mentioned earlier, we also know that the earliest Christians had no choice but to work on Sundays.
          Colossians 2:16 should pretty clear, but unfortunately many interpret it in the opposite way that Paul meant.

          Colossians 2:20-23 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

          They were being judged by people who were teaching self-made religion and asceticism and severity to body, so they were being judged because they were eating and drinking and keeping the God's festivals, the new moon, and the Sabbath, and Paul was saying not to listen to them. Commands of God to follow His festivals and the Sabbath do not qualify as following a self-made religion.
          "Faith is nothing less than the will to keep one's mind fixed precisely on what reason has discovered to it." - Edward Feser

          Comment


          • #95
            Romans 14 The Weak and the Strong

            1Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

            5One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

            10You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:

            “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,

            ‘every knee will bow before me;

            every tongue will acknowledge God.’ 

            12So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

            13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

            19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

            22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

            Comment


            • #96
              Hey Scawly,

              I'm not sure why you ignore what I've about Romans 14, but here goes again:

              Paul never considered whether we should follow God’s instructions to be a matter of opinion, so in verse 1 he was not considering people to be weak in faith because they were keeping kosher or the Sabbath. After all, Peter said in Acts 10 that he had never eaten anything uncommon or unclean, but was he weak in faith when he told someone in Acts 3:6 to get up and walk in the name of Jesus? Or did Paul consider himself weak in faith when he continued to keep the Sabbath, such as in Acts 17:2?

              Again, in Romans 14:2, eating only vegetables is not a restriction that is found in any kosher law, so it a personal choice. In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul gave a parallel message to Romans 14, but indicates that people weak in faith were tempted to eat meat sacrificed to idols and revert back to paganism. Someone might choose to eat only vegetables if eating meat reminded them of idols or if they weren’t certain it wasn’t offered to idols.

              1 Corinthians 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

              Luke 10:8 Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you.

              Even if you think Jesus’ death did away with kosher laws, he hasn’t died yet in Luke 10:8, so he certainly was not giving them permission to eat pork. At the time, they were only going out to Jews and they wouldn’t even enter the house of a Gentile.

              People were judging others for not eating meat out of fear and they were in turn judging others for eating meat that was sacrificed to idols. Asceticism was also fairly popular, which was the practice of severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, so for a number of reasons people were judging each other about what they did or didn’t eat, which is the problem Paul was addressing in verses 14:2-3.

              In verses 5, Paul was still talking about the personal opinion of esteeming one day above others, not about God’s instructions of keeping the Sabbath. Verse 6 clarifies verse 5 by talking about eating or abstaining from eating, so the issue is about fasting. The only times Jews were told to fast was during Yom Kippur, but as a personal preference Jews would fast regularly or the commemorate certain days, such as the destruction of the temple. However, some Jews who fasted of certain days likewise looked down their noses at people who didn’t.

              Luke 18:11-12 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a]thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

              There was also some difference in opinion about which days to fast:

              Didache 8:1 Your fasts should not be with the hypocrites, for they fast on Mondays and Thursdays. You should fast on Wednesdays and Fridays.

              Paul was also concerned about Jews who had not yet become believers in Jesus. According to Jewish eschatological expectations, the behavior of Gentiles would indicate whether what Paul was teaching had any validity. Many of those Jews were sitting on the fence and were watching to see if Gentiles were coming to worship God in an acceptable way, which would be taken as a sign that Paul was teaching was of God. Conversely, if they saw Gentiles disregarding the instructions of God and continuing to follow pagan practices, then it was a sign that his teachings were false and that Jesus was not their Messiah.
              "Faith is nothing less than the will to keep one's mind fixed precisely on what reason has discovered to it." - Edward Feser

              Comment


              • #97
                This doesn't really relate to the rest of this thread but I found it interesting. This site argues that we should take the application further for modern times and emphasizes that we should work six days a week, not five.

                http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_6days.html
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  This doesn't really relate to the rest of this thread but I found it interesting. This site argues that we should take the application further for modern times and emphasizes that we should work six days a week, not five.

                  http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_6days.html
                  The five day work week has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    The five day work week has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
                    Yeah, it seemed a bit off.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                      About a year ago I started working in retail again. It is a small store that is open on Sundays, but with reduced hours and staff. We have four people scheduled for Sundays, out of a total of twelve employees (including management). Not everyone is free on Sundays, so it ends up being the same three people every week with the managers taking turns. One of the people working every Sunday is me. I recently found out that one of my coworkers who never works on Sunday is refusing to do so because he believes that it is wrong for him to work that day.

                      Here are my questions:

                      Is it wrong to refuse to work on a Sunday if it means you are forcing someone else to work on that day against their beliefs? The reason I don't want to is because it is hard for me to get there on time, especially if church runs late and my parents decide they want to hang around and talk afterwards (I am depending on them for rides right now, long story). So for me, it is not entirely a matter of believing that it is wrong to work that day, as long as I get another day off that week to rest. I just prefer that day off be Sunday, so I am not stressed after church trying to get to work on time and so that I can stay after church and talk to people if I need to. But if he was causing me to violate my conscience in working on a Sunday, would that be wrong of him? We could at least alternate. A compromise could be reached.

                      Another question is this:
                      Is it important that the day off from work be Sunday, or is that being too legalistic? The pastor of the church I went to before the one I am at now taught that it didn't matter which day of the week you had off from work, as long as you had a day of rest.

                      Also:
                      Prior to this past June, I worked two jobs for seven months straight with almost no days off. I wanted to have a day off but couldn't afford it. Was it wrong for me to not take any time off work, even if my finances would have suffered for it? I was saving up so I could afford to visit my husband, as well as paying other various bills. To me, it would have been wrong for me to not visit him, as it is important that we spend at least some time together and it looks like it will be a while yet before we are able to live together.

                      I pretty much already know where I stand in all this, but I want to hear other people's viewpoints.
                      Not working on Sundays was a Mosaic command. Besides James 2:10 says: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
                      -- That means if you do not work for 9,999 Sundays but work on the 10,000th Sunday... you are guilty of all... breaking all the commandments.
                      There are four types of giving in the Bible:

                      1. Tithe – Motivation is Obedience.

                      2. First Fruits – Motivation is Generosity.

                      3. Alms Giving – Motivation is Compassion.

                      4. Seed Giving – Motivation is Faith and Reward.

                      Comment


                      • People under the old covenant were not permitted to work on Saturday.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
                          Not working on Sundays was a Mosaic command. Besides James 2:10 says: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
                          -- That means if you do not work for 9,999 Sundays but work on the 10,000th Sunday... you are guilty of all... breaking all the commandments.
                          The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (some famous person said that)
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
                            Not working on Sundays was a Mosaic command. Besides James 2:10 says: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
                            -- That means if you do not work for 9,999 Sundays but work on the 10,000th Sunday... you are guilty of all... breaking all the commandments.
                            That's nothing! Last week I drove for two hours on the shabbat. Let's see, internal combustion engine, 4 cylinders at 4,000 RPM, 120 minutes. I violated the shabbat nearly two million times just by driving. Plus, I turned on the stove to cook some bacon.
                            When I Survey....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Faber View Post
                              That's nothing! Last week I drove for two hours on the shabbat. Let's see, internal combustion engine, 4 cylinders at 4,000 RPM, 120 minutes. I violated the shabbat nearly two million times just by driving. Plus, I turned on the stove to cook some bacon.
                              Did you use a towel with mixed fibers? (: Take two turtledoves down to your local Applebees....
                              There are four types of giving in the Bible:

                              1. Tithe – Motivation is Obedience.

                              2. First Fruits – Motivation is Generosity.

                              3. Alms Giving – Motivation is Compassion.

                              4. Seed Giving – Motivation is Faith and Reward.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (some famous person said that)
                                Exactly, so it doesn't really matter which day we worship on, just as long as we "forsake not the assembling of ourselves...." "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word..." Get yourself to Church at least once a week to get The Word down into your soul and to fellowship with other believers.
                                There are four types of giving in the Bible:

                                1. Tithe – Motivation is Obedience.

                                2. First Fruits – Motivation is Generosity.

                                3. Alms Giving – Motivation is Compassion.

                                4. Seed Giving – Motivation is Faith and Reward.

                                Comment

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