Behold, atheists' new Ten Commandments

[Darth Executor]

Thinking for oneself and being informed leads to mass human extinction?

For most people yes on the former. For the latter, I said "pretty good", not "perfect". Of course, being informed as opposed to being misinformed is itself a titanic task for most people.

[shunyadragon]

The Humanist Manifesto is somewhat better worded and thought out then these principles.

[seer]

5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life.

Who or which culture defines good?

6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.

How could a finite creature ever really know the long term consequences of any moral action.

8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations.

Why? After you are dead it won't matter - to you.

9. There is no one right way to live.

So Stalin's way to live is just as valid as Mother Teresa's?

10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

Again, why?

[shunyadragon]

Who or which culture defines good?

Good question, that you could not answer either.

How could a finite creature ever really know the long term consequences of any moral action?

In human history the social conventions of morality have evolved to guarantee the survival of future generations. The necessary criteria are: (1) the family unit to raise children to maturity. (2) cooperation of stable community social units to ensure safety. (3) a system of morals and ethics as social contracts that determine what is moral and immoral. (4) A system of governance to enforce that social contracts are enforced.

Why? After you are dead it won't matter - to you.

It matters to the future generations.

So Stalin's way to live is just as valid as Mother Teresa's?

No in all cultures and societies the survival of future generations is dependent on 'Stalin's way to live does not dominate.'

[Sparko]

I find it ironic that even in defining their rules, atheists have to copy religion and come up with "10 commandments" - and twist them.

[whag]

I find it ironic that even in defining their rules, atheists have to copy religion and come up with "10 commandments" - and twist them.

This bespeaks a deep ignorance of the origin of morality. For human beings to survive, the taboos of theft and murder must have preceded the codifying.

[Paprika]

Few of us wish for our lives to be ended against our will.

I'd like to focus on this example: sure, few people wish for their own lives to be ended against their will, but this only implies that for one specific person only one person doesn't wish for this person's life to be ended against his will. As it stands, this doesn't immediately translate to a "shared goal" or things "all" value.

[Carrikature]

I find it ironic that even in defining their rules, atheists have to copy religion and come up with "10 commandments" - and twist them.

As if the original 10 were actually ten and started with religion.

[Carrikature]

I'd like to focus on this example: sure, few people wish for their own lives to be ended against their will, but this only implies that for one specific person only one person doesn't wish for this person's life to be ended against his will. As it stands, this doesn't immediately translate to a "shared goal" or things "all" value.

Yay English! My use of shared here is in terms of things we have in common. That is, you value your life and I value my life. Our value of our lives is something we have in common. I realize that shared can mean we both value my life, but that's not how I was using it. Hence, we all value our own lives and can agree on tenets that protect that life.

For what it's worth, I do think we care about the lives of others even if it's too a lesser extent. There's a sense of vulnerability that arises when you realize that your life can be ended just as quickly as that other guy's.

[Sparko]

This bespeaks a deep ignorance of the origin of morality. For human beings to survive, the taboos of theft and murder must have preceded the codifying.

That wasn't what I was saying.

Basically I was saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Atheism has it's own church now, and it's own 10 commandments. What's next? It's own God?

[whag]

That wasn't what I was saying.

Basically I was saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Atheism has it's own church now, and it's own 10 commandments. What's next? It's own God?

I think the point is to modernize the rules, but if you're flattered by that, that's okay. Many of us would be in trouble if we had to follow "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Have you ever exerted yourself on the sabbath?

[shunyadragon]

That wasn't what I was saying.

Basically I was saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Atheism has it's own church now, and it's own 10 commandments. What's next? It's own God?

The problem is these supposed commandments are nothing new. Before Christianity and Hebrew writings they were apart of Vedic teaching in India, and Neolithic China. Social morals and codes of conduct have been around as long as humans have been social animals, and similar simpler codes of conduct such as these exist in primate societies. In chimpanzees theft and wrongful injury to others is punished.

[Sparko]

The problem is these supposed commandments are nothing new. Before Christianity and Hebrew writings they were apart of Vedic teaching in India, and Neolithic China. Social morals and codes of conduct have been around as long as humans have been social animals, and similar simpler codes of conduct such as these exist in primate societies. In chimpanzees theft and wrongful injury to others is punished.

I never claimed they were new. and we already have laws against stealing, murder, etc. My point is that atheists are to the point where they imitate religion. They start their own churches, come up with a set of rules they call the 10 commandments. The obvious parallel is that they are imitating religion.

[pancreasman]

I find it ironic that even in defining their rules, atheists have to copy religion and come up with "10 commandments" - and twist them.

A couple of things. Atheists coming up with ten commandments aren't really making rules, rather using a culturally significant literary device to make a point. Secondly, I don't think most atheists believe all of religion is inherently wrong and must be discarded. You guys have some good ideas in there. It would be churlish (or Seer-like) to deny the contributions the other side makes simply because they make them.

[whag]

They start their own churches, come up with a set of rules they call the 10 commandments.

What skeptics do you know who start churches? I'd say about 99% of atheists don't start churches. Those commandments were meant to drive home the point that the Decalogue needs an update.