If Jesus is not God,Why worship Him?

[PioneerSDA]

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." John 5:23

We should honor Jesus just as if we would honor the Father. If we would honor the Father by worshipping him than we should worship His Son also. For He is the True Son, only begotten from him and equal in nature to Him even if he is younger because he is His male offspring makes no diference. He is the Prince of heaven. The Son of God is our God even if He is not the One True God.

[shunyadragon]

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." John 5:23

We should honor Jesus just as if we would honor the Father. If we would honor the Father by worshipping him than we should worship His Son also. For He is the True Son, only begotten from him and equal in nature to Him even if he is younger because he is His male offspring makes no diference. He is the Prince of heaven. The Son of God is our God even if He is not the One True God.

We should not worship Him, but worship God as He said in John chapter 5.

[PioneerSDA]

Dear ShunyDragon,
It is such a blessing to see you on here again today. I would like to reply to this post that you posted along time ago while prayerfully hoping that you and your family are blessed.

I'd like to ask you a question but first I'd like to give a little introductory note about my beliefs about Jesus. I believe Jesus is fully Divine because He inhereited His Father's Divine nature when He was born from Him in eternity. Jesus is not created, He is God's only born who He sent into the world as a human to save us. 1st John 4:9; John 3:16 In fact He created all of the creatures with His Father Proverbs 30:4; Ephesians 3:9; Hebrews 1:1,2. Because the Son of Yahweh inherited His Father's Divine nature and Divine name and created us we can rightly call Him God. Now that being said here is my question to you ShunyDragon.

Where did Jesus ever say in John chapter 5 that He wasn't God? You might not believe that He is God but both Abraham and Jesus disagrees with you.
Do you have a problem with the preexistance of Christ? The Jews of Jesus's time did too. In John 8:56-59 Jesus tells the unbelieving Jews how He saw Abraham and they tried to kill Him. You might ask, where in the Bible did Jesus see Abraham. In Genesis 18 this Divine being who has the name Yahweh comes to Abraham with His two messengers and eats with Him. I believe this had to be the Yahweh's only born because "No man hath seen God at any time (nor seen his shape), the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." John 1:18 ; John 5;37

Abraham called this Divine being the judge of the whole earth in Genesis 18:27 and Jesus tells us that He himself is the judge of the whole earth in John 5:22 so He must be telling us He is God even though He is not His own God, His Father is His God who He called the only true God in John 17:3 but that's another subject.

I have found one more reason why Jesus is calling Himself God in John chapter 5 but I need a dictionary to help me out.

Self-existence
(n.) Inherent existence; existence possessed by virtue of a being's own nature, and independent of any other being or cause; -- an attribute peculiar to God. 1913 US Webster's Unabridged Dictionary
http://www.onelook.com/?other=web1913&w=Self-existence

So basically if someone has self-existence that means that they have "life in himself" and that is an attribute that is special to someone who has a Divine nature something special to God. I'm sure you would agree that if some one by nature has life in himself than that would mean they have self existence and they are Divine so when Jesus said "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;" John 5:26 He must have meant that He has self existence just like His Father so He must have and equal Divine nature and He can rightly also be called God because the Son of God is our God. No wonder Jesus called Himself the "I Am" in John 8:58 and Abraham called Him Yahweh "The Self Existent One" in Genesis 18 because the Son also has "life in himself" self existence which only God the Father and His equally Divine Son who He gave birth to in eternity have. Thank you very much for your reply. My sincere prayer for you is that you will one day that you will except the truth that Jesus was born in eternity and made the plan of redemption with His Father for us and that knowing this you will live by the faith of Paul who said “…I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Galatians 2:20 K.J.V.

[shunyadragon]

Dear ShunyDragon,

Where did Jesus ever say in John chapter 5 that He wasn't God? You might not believe that He is God but both Abraham and Jesus disagrees with you.
Do you have a problem with the preexistance of Christ? The Jews of Jesus's time did too. In John 8:56-59 Jesus tells the unbelieving Jews how He saw Abraham and they tried to kill Him. You might ask, where in the Bible did Jesus see Abraham. In Genesis 18 this Divine being who has the name Yahweh comes to Abraham with His two messengers and eats with Him. I believe this had to be the Yahweh's only born because "No man hath seen God at any time (nor seen his shape), the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." John 1:18 ; John 5;37

You basically still ignore John 5 where He says he has no power of His own and does not bear witness to Himself, but the Father in Heaven. These verses are clear and allow little room for the concept that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the manifestation of the Word of God, but not God. The preexistence of Christ does not make him God, whether it is true or not.

I do not believe Abraham is a witness to Jesus Christ being God. Jesus could be considered the intermediary between humans and God in the OT, because this is the station of the 'Annointed One' or Messiah in the OT, but that does not make him God.

[Zxcv Bnm]

You basically still ignore John 5 where He says he has no power of His own and does not bear witness to Himself, but the Father in Heaven. These verses are clear and allow little room for the concept that Jesus Christ is God.

Jesus affirms in verse 19 that he and his father are of equal purpose, and emphasizes how the father and the son work perfectly together.

Jesus, being God, can only do what his father does, because otherwise God would be divided against himself. Even God cannot work against his own nature.

John 5 further shows that Jesus has equal power, and equal honor, as his father.

[PioneerSDA]

You basically still ignore John 5 where He says he has no power of His own and does not bear witness to Himself, but the Father in Heaven. These verses are clear and allow little room for the concept that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the manifestation of the Word of God, but not God. The preexistence of Christ does not make him God, whether it is true or not.

I do not believe Abraham is a witness to Jesus Christ being God. Jesus could be considered the intermediary between humans and God in the OT, because this is the station of the 'Annointed One' or Messiah in the OT, but that does not make him God.

May God and Christ His only born Son bless you.

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will." John 5:19-21

Jesus said that He does everything that God does but you say that proves that He is not Himself God. Truly He is not the same person as His Father but He must have an equally Divine nature in order to do those things that only God can do.

Than we both agree that Jesus is the Son of God. But what kind of Son of God is He? "God sent His only born Son into the world" 1st John 4:9 We humans and the angels are all created sons of God but Christ is God's only born and is His one true literal Son. Hebrews 1:5 Because he was literally born from God in eternity he inherited all of His Father's divine power and even His Title so Jesus can be called God just like His Father even though he is not the same person or any part of the person of His Father. He is a seperate being from Him. I am not a trinitarian but I do believe the Bible. Jesus is the only Son of God that was equal to Him. "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." John 5:18 Jesus is the only Son of God that deserves to be honered as much as the Father. John 5:23. Jesus is the only Son of God that has self existence life in Himself. John 5:26. In fact there is no part of John 5 that even hints that Christ the Son of God isn't equally Divine with His Father. Jesus is the Judge of the Whole earth John 5:22 but that is a title alone for God. "Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. " Pslams 94:2

If Abraham did not see Jesus the God's only born Son than who did He see. Who came to eat with him with His two angels?

"Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day. 18:2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and saw that three men stood opposite him. When he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth, 18:3 and said, "My lord, if now I have found favor in your sight, please don't go away from your servant" Genesis 18:1,2. World English Bible Please read the whole chapter. Then see this Bible verse that makes it impossible for that to have been God the Father. "No man hath seen God at any time[nor seen his shape], the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. " John 1:18 ; John 5:37

This thread was not to prove that Jesus is part of any unbiblical trinity. This thread is to discuss why Jesus deserves as much worship as God does. You have not answered the topic of this post but I am still very glad that you wrote me.

I sincerely hope that one day you may be like Paul who said "...I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" Galations 2:20

[shunyadragon]

Jesus affirms in verse 19 that he and his father are of equal purpose, and emphasizes how the father and the son work perfectly together.

Jesus, being God, can only do what his father does, because otherwise God would be divided against himself. Even God cannot work against his own nature.

John 5 further shows that Jesus has equal power, and equal honor, as his father.

Not so in John 5 Christ says he has no power of his own. Crist performs God's will on earth not his own. These are in no way equal stations.

[captmarvelous]

Not so in John 5 Christ says he has no power of his own. Crist performs God's will on earth not his own. These are in no way equal stations.

Can you explain John 20:28?

In context of course.

cm

[shunyadragon]

May God and Christ His only born Son bless you.

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will." John 5:19-21

Jesus said that He does everything that God does but you say that proves that He is not Himself God. Truly He is not the same person as His Father but He must have an equally Divine nature in order to do those things that only God can do.

Than we both agree that Jesus is the Son of God. But what kind of Son of God is He? "God sent His only born Son into the world" 1st John 4:9 We humans and the angels are all created sons of God but Christ is God's only born and is His one true literal Son. Hebrews 1:5 Because he was literally born from God in eternity he inherited all of His Father's divine power and even His Title so Jesus can be called God just like His Father even though he is not the same person or any part of the person of His Father. He is a seperate being from Him. I am not a trinitarian but I do believe the Bible. Jesus is the only Son of God that was equal to Him. "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." John 5:18 Jesus is the only Son of God that deserves to be honered as much as the Father. John 5:23. Jesus is the only Son of God that has self existence life in Himself. John 5:26. In fact there is no part of John 5 that even hints that Christ the Son of God isn't equally Divine with His Father. Jesus is the Judge of the Whole earth John 5:22 but that is a title alone for God. "Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. " Pslams 94:2

If Abraham did not see Jesus the God's only born Son than who did He see. Who came to eat with him with His two angels?

"Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day. 18:2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and saw that three men stood opposite him. When he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth, 18:3 and said, "My lord, if now I have found favor in your sight, please don't go away from your servant" Genesis 18:1,2. World English Bible Please read the whole chapter. Then see this Bible verse that makes it impossible for that to have been God the Father. "No man hath seen God at any time[nor seen his shape], the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. " John 1:18 ; John 5:37

This thread was not to prove that Jesus is part of any unbiblical trinity. This thread is to discuss why Jesus deserves as much worship as God does. You have not answered the topic of this post but I am still very glad that you wrote me.

I sincerely hope that one day you may be like Paul who said "...I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" Galations 2:20

Christ being the Son of God is not God. Jesus said himself he did not deserve as much worship as God when he said, "If I bear witness to my self, my witness is not true. I bear witness

[shunyadragon]

Can you explain John 20:28?

In context of course.

cm

In context Christ is the Son of God the messiah the spokes person of God, but not God. Christ was a messiah like Mose prophesied in the OT. Was Moses God?

Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Could that somehow shed light on the interpretation of my Lord and my God in John 20:28 ?

In other words, could the word "God" in Thomas's mouth refer to the function rather than the being? Something like you are my ruler, the one to whom I surrender my soul.

[captmarvelous]

In context Christ is the Son of God the messiah the spokes person of God, but not God. Christ was a messiah like Mose prophesied in the OT. Was Moses God?

John 20:28 refers to Jesus as God, not the son of God.

CM

[shunyadragon]

John 20:28 refers to Jesus as God, not the son of God.

CM

Did not answer the question. Is Moses God?

[captmarvelous]

Did not answer the question. Is Moses God?

You are the one avoiding the question. Nobody ever said that Moses is God, but they did say that Jesus is.

So what is your answer to :

John 20:27-29 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

??

[InChristAlways]

We should not worship Him, but worship God as He said in John chapter 5.

Hi shunya. What about honoring God in the Name of Jesus, which God put above everything under heaven and in the earth.

It appears Isaiah 28 is to the jews in Jerusalem, and though it is harder for us "gentiles" to view this, it appears God was going to send "someone" to the jews to make a new covenant with them. Have they figured out yet who or in what way that would be done?

Acts 4:"This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, Who rule this people who [are] in Jerusalem, 15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves." 16 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily.

[PioneerSDA]

Christ being the Son of God is not God. Jesus said himself he did not deserve as much worship as God when he said, "If I bear witness to my self, my witness is not true. I bear witness

I hope God's Divine Son blesses you. Thank you for your response. Let's look at some Biblical examples of parents having born children with their own nature.

In Genesis 1:21 when God created sea creatures they gave birth to children just like them. The same thing when God created flying creatures, they gave birth to children just like them.

In Genesis 1:24,25 when God made land creatures they gave birth to children just like them.

Was man any different. What did the Bible say when Adam gave birth to His Son Seth.

"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth" Genesis 5:3

Don't you see that when Adam begat a son, his son was exactly like him and having the same nature as his father?

Even though Adam is the only true (original) human didn't mean that his son wasn't equally human with himself having the same human nature and could also be called human.

This is similar to what happened in eternity when God literally begat a Son even though He did not need a woman. His Son was not the only true (original) God but He still had the same Divine nature as His Father and could also be called God.

You saying that the only Son born from God is not God is like saying the only son born from the only human is not human. Don't you see that if God really did give birth to a Son from His own Divine substance that His Son would have the same Divine nature as Himself even though He is not the same person or any part of Himself?

Ephesians 1:17 is my prayer for you "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the father of glory may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowlege of Him"