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Thread: Will the real date of the Exodus please stand out.

  1. #21
    tWebber jordanriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Wikipedia mentions that the locality of the city of Ramasses absorbed the city Avaris:


    This point goes well with the proposal that the Exodus around the time when Egypt was ruled by the Hyksos. I had heard before of the Hyksos rule but had not heard that the capital was in the Pi-Ramasses area. (Please note that my overall reading about Egypt and the Exodus are limited. I am piecing together rather limited information.) To say Pi-Ramasses was not occupied until 1200s excludes the previous history of the territory. It would be natural for the Hebrews to equate the name of Pi-Ramasses with the Avaris location, as a means of communicating in more modern terms the locality of a city.
    With the articles I posted earlier (one of which, at least, refers to scholarly articles), the fit of the exodus to around 1585 is much better in accord with archaeological finds. It seems relevant then to accept the timing which best fits our knowledge -- scholarly and scientific study is essentially focused on bringing out the most logical associations.
    It seems to go against logic to say that the mere use of a modernized name is sufficient to overcome the evidence pointing to good time calculation which affirms the possibility, for example, that the biblical association of Israel with the fall of Jericho is reasonable to accept.
    That would certainly explain how the technologically superior (in war) Hyksos lost their stranglehold of Egypt
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordanriver View Post
    That would certainly explain how the technologically superior (in war) Hyksos lost their stranglehold of Egypt
    Do you mean the disaster of losing an army in the Red Sea weakened the Hyksos to the point of eventually losing Egypt?
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  3. #23
    tWebber jordanriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
    Do you mean the disaster of losing an army in the Red Sea weakened the Hyksos to the point of eventually losing Egypt?
    Well...
    some pharoah and army got drowned .
    And I think Hyksos who dominated the same Eastern Nile Delta that was 'land of Rameses' (or land of Goshen? )
    make ideal candidates
    To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

  4. #24
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordanriver View Post
    Well...
    some pharoah and army got drowned .
    At present there is no evidence this happened as described in the Bible.

    And I think Hyksos who dominated the same Eastern Nile Delta that was 'land of Rameses' (or land of Goshen? )
    make ideal candidates
    Possible.
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  5. Amen Secular Liberation amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    At present there is no evidence this happened as described in the Bible.
    What evidence we have so far appears to suggest that Shunyadragon is not the most intelligent and knowledgeable poster in TWeb.
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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    tWebber Boxing Pythagoras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
    What evidence we have so far appears to suggest that Shunyadragon is not the most intelligent and knowledgeable poster in TWeb.
    This seems fairly uncalled for, in this situation. Are you aware of any evidence that any pharaoh led an army, on chariot and foot, into the Sea of Reeds (Masoretic) or the Red Sea (LXX) or any sea bordering Egypt, only to see them all drowned?
    "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every hidden truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
    --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
    Are you aware of any evidence that any pharaoh led an army, on chariot and foot, into the Sea of Reeds (Masoretic) or the Red Sea (LXX) or any sea bordering Egypt, only to see them all drowned?
    Yes. Well, far from being convincing to you, Shuny and others.
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  9. #28
    Child of the One True King Raphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
    This seems fairly uncalled for, in this situation. Are you aware of any evidence that any pharaoh led an army, on chariot and foot, into the Sea of Reeds (Masoretic) or the Red Sea (LXX) or any sea bordering Egypt, only to see them all drowned?
    There is the "evidence" supposedly found by Ron Wyatt......but I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole (I am highly sceptical of all his supposed discoveries)
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    At present there is no evidence this happened as described in the Bible.
    You mean other than the ancient text that is the Bible?

  11. Amen Zymologist amen'd this post.
  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Some argue that the traditional Ancient Egyptian chronology is incorrect.
    For example, a date of 1540 B.C. is traditionally said to be 17/18th dynasty.
    Some revised chronology says that 1540 may be 12th dynasty.
    https://answersingenesis.org/archaeo...le-unreliable/
    I favor 1540 B.C. as a rough date. I also favor the alternative chronology you specify. If you calculate the times for each leader in the book of Judges, you come to 572 years. (Allowing +/- a year for rounding you could literally read any length of time between about 560-580 years.) That would corroborate the theory that the 480 (440LXX) calculation is an error of some kind.

    I don't have the references at this time, but I also think the Exodus occurred at the end of the 13th dynasty under Pharoah Dudimose, correlating with the time of the easy Hyksos invasion, when Egypt was conquered without a fight, according the Ipuwer scroll, which also references the plagues of Exodus. (Not without some dispute mind you.) Dudimose's tomb has never been found, which would be expected if he drowned with his army in whatever body of water Israel crossed into.

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