Originally posted by robrecht
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World Religions is a theist only type place, but that does not exclude certain religionists who practice non-theistic faiths ala Buddhism. If you are not sure, ask a moderator.
This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God.
And as usual, the forum rules apply.
Forum Rules: Here
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Papa Francis prays facing Mecca in mosque
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostIs there anything specific that you are objecting to here?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWell, as I said, it makes a difference because its not like he looked for Mecca and then ritually turned in that direction. You'd have to go out of your way to turn a different direction NOT to pray in the direction of Mecca in a mosque, and that'd be a little weird.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostI object to that act of worship in that specific situation and context. However, given the Catholic position that the Muslims adore the same "one, merciful God", in hindsight this should not have at all been surprising.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostPerhaps. But is it not still "purposefully praying towards Mecca as part of inter-religious dialogue"?
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostDo you believe in one God or many gods?
Do you think Muslims believe in one God but are mistakenly worshiping some kind of demon or something like that?
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostFor us there is one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ.
Certainly they believe in that there is one supreme being. What they actually worship is something about which I have not reached a firm conclusion.Last edited by robrecht; 12-27-2014, 10:27 AM.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostPossibly
but considering that God is everywhere present, in the long run, maybe it doesn't matter?...In the end, it doesn't matter in which direction he prayed, but I could see it being a stumbling block for the weak in the faith.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostSo, even 'though you have not reached a firm conclusion about this question, you nonetheless object to those who have reached a firm conclusion? Is that fair?
With respect to this issue, I have reached a firm conclusion that what they worship is something other than what I do: its precise nature is at best tangential.
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I find myself agreeing with Pap here in the sense that there cannot be any "meeting of the minds" between Christanity and other faiths.
I have huge issues with ecumenism.
And the god that Islam worships is not the God of Christianity in any way, shape, or form.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostWhy not?
Originally posted by Paprika View PostIn general, that I have not reached a firm conclusion about a certain matter does not imply that I cannot accurately judge the conclusions reached by others: for example, in terms of coherence with other beliefs held.
Originally posted by Paprika View PostWith respect to this issue, I have reached a firm conclusion that what they worship is something other than what I do: its precise nature is at best tangential.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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1. Pap, you expect people to explain it away as if it's scandalous without making any sort of argument as to why it's scandalous.
2. Hilaire Belloc characterized Islam as a Christian heresy that appeared beyond the borders of Christendom. I find this explanation to be rather plausible, and it is possible to make sense even of the Quranic passages that seem to denounce Christianity as responses specifically to pseudo-Christian and gnostic sects that made their way out into the Arabian peninsula mostly because they were not particularly welcome in Christian society.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostBy asking if that was fair, I only meant, 'is that a fair representation of your position?
Depends. If you object to or condemn the behavior or beliefs of others, it typically does entail at least an implicit affirmation of your own contrary beliefs.
And by bowing his head and praying silently, in the presence of this muslim leader in this mosque, you feel that the pope is therefore worshiping something other than what (whom?) you worship?
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostWeren't you the one saying that the Pope "purposefully praying towards Mecca as part of inter-religious dialogue" would be a "big deal"?
I do not see actions in an atomistic fashion; rather the meaning and significance of actions is intrinsically derived (not least) from the context. Hence, praying with a Muslim leader facing Mecca is not the same as praying in any old direction.
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