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Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

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  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    I had that sort of thing in mind when I answered. Scripture never outright calls God the source of lies as evidently the koran does. Now, as stated, that's from the quotations here so if they are in error then yes, a nuanced view might be possible. But if not, I don't see a good way out of the dilemma, unlike the problematic passages in Scripture.
    You can find sanitized versions of said quotation like this one. Still doesn't change the meaning of makr, or that all makr is of Allah. Deceptive translation =/= nuance.

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    • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
      It's certainly not much, and certainly not much more than any other monotheistic faiths.
      So if I ask a Muslim if Allah is immanent, unchanging, simple, immaterial, and jealous for us, they'll say no?

      Considering the history of Mohammed and Islam, this is only so because Mohammed wanted to start with some credibility, so he took what he remembered from Judaism and Christianity that fit his needs. Often confusing the accounts. Like when he gets parts from the Exodus and parts from Esther confused, or Gideon and Samuel.
      Well sure. I'm not saying the Islamic account is factually accurate. I am a Christian after all. I'm simply suggesting common ground for the evangelist.

      You are going by the least common denominators here.
      Exactly!

      I'm not defending Islam here. In case that wasn't clear. All I'm saying is that we don't have to go to war with them, or give up all hope on them. We have a mission to help lead them to Christ, and if that means we can find any commonalty we should use that to our advantage.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        Isn't that always the case? Between the Westboro Baptists, Catholic priest pedophiles, and other loonies that fill the papers, we rarely hear anything positive, or even neutral about the general Christian population.
        But most people know somebody who professes to be a Christian, and knows that their work ethic and general conduct... um.... yeah, I see your point.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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        • Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
          1) "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24). Now, if I were to present this verse to any Muslim alive today, they would reject it. Jesus tells these people, therefore, that they shall die in their sins. Unless Muslims believe that Jesus is God, they will die in their sins. This much can be established and it is not a matter of having incomplete knowledge, but rather inconsistent knowledge with the gospel.
          I see your point, but that saying in John 8 was made to the Pharisees, who'd already heard Jesus preach and seen his miracles. That is, they had apparently been given near-proof of Jesus' claims. The same cannot be said of most Muslims. How can, and why should, one believe that Jesus is divine and the messiah unless one has been given evidence of it?

          2) In regards to people having incomplete knowledge and slightly differing views, as we all do, well, I am confident that God is able to bring His elect to the faith. Whether this is via a vision or in a dream, or perhaps by brining a missionary across the path of a chosen one, I am, once again, confident God shall gather His elect into the faith that was once for all entrusted to the Saints. So, it is not so much about having perfectly harmonious doctrine, but rather about being born-again by the sovereign working of the Holy Spirit in the lives of the elect - who will not deny the core doctrines of the faith, which includes the deity of Christ.
          Sure, but what of Muslims who were never presented with a convincing case to believe in the deity of Christ?

          3) The third issue raised is how the Jews were saved before the incarnation:

          -----------------------------------------------------

          "... to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world." Revelation 13:8 (see also John 6:39, Hebrews 13:20). As this verse indicates, there is a clear element of timelessness in Christ's death, Therefore, the forgiveness purchased by Christ for His people at his death was already efficacious to the saints which existed prior to his coming. in the New Testament Paul indicates that Abraham had the gospel preached to him: "The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "[Gen 12:3] ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." Galatians 3:8

          Although much of the gospel perhaps remained a mystery to the Jews, they saw it from afar (Heb 11) and evidently received enough for the Holy Spirit to apply toward their regeneration, apart from works of the Law. Even Jesus in the Gospel of John says "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56).

          Apparently the Spiritual Jews of the first century deeply understood the implications and necessity of a Messiah for when Jesus is presented in the temple there was a man called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel so that when he saw Jesus he took him in his arms and praised God, saying: "Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you now dismiss your servant in peace. For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of all people, a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel."(Luke 2:29-32)

          The progressive unfolding nature of the covenants with Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David laid the covenantal groundwork for the culmination of God's redemptive work in His new covenant in Christ. The nation of Israel shares a primary role in God's self-revelation in redemptive history. It is the revelation unfolding through the Old Testament that provides the crucial framework for understanding God's complete self-revelation through Jesus Christ.

          -----------------------------------------------------

          Source: http://www.monergism.com/thethreshol.../otsaints.html

          I encourage you to read the above article in its entirety. I'm sure it will provide further illumination.
          Don't Muslims technically share a belief in the progression of the Noahide and Abrahamic covenants, though? I thought they basically agreed with Christians up until Abraham's sacrifice of a son. Could it not be said that the Muslims were also on that covenantal groundwork to an extent?
          Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

          I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
            So if I ask a Muslim if Allah is immanent, unchanging, simple, immaterial, and jealous for us, they'll say no?
            Unless you meet one who was a classical theist and brought their former beliefs about God with them, then I suspect they would say no. For immanent, you can only get agreement on that by twisting definitions, because "Allah" is supposed to transcend beyond anything humanity can actually imagine in any way shape or form. For unchanging, he clearly does change, and is in fact quite capricious. For simple, he is described as having body parts, and in contexts that suggest they are literal, and not anthropomorphisms. As for "jealous for us" no, why would he be when he created certain people for hell, and others for paradise? The Quran teaches a kind of hyper Calvinism, but at the same time says we are responsible for what we do.

            Well sure. I'm not saying the Islamic account is factually accurate. I am a Christian after all. I'm simply suggesting common ground for the evangelist.
            Well, what I'm trying to say is that "These are not the prophets you are looking for". Muslims do not accept the Bible as being accurate. Well, sometimes they do, but only if they think it argues for Mohammed, and the Quran as being correct.

            Exactly!

            I'm not defending Islam here. In case that wasn't clear. All I'm saying is that we don't have to go to war with them, or give up all hope on them. We have a mission to help lead them to Christ, and if that means we can find any commonalty we should use that to our advantage.
            Yeah, and I'm saying that these similarities aren't nearly as useful as you would think due to the differences in definitions. It's like certain Christ Myth theories and how they try to use words like "resurrection", "crucifixion", "Trinity" etc., but their source material has no real similarity to what those words mean.

            Comment


            • The name Allah predates Mohammad. And is from the Arabic, a contraction for the "article" and the Arabic word for "God." Meaning the One God. The English equivalent, I think, of "Th'God." which we do not use. The name Allah is older than the English word "God." It is my understanding Bibles in Arabic use Allah for God.
              Last edited by 37818; 01-04-2015, 05:27 PM.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                The name Allah predates Mohammad. And is from the Arabic, a contraction for the "article" and the Arabic word for "God." Meaning the One God. The English equivalent, I think, of "Th'God." which we do not use. The name Allah is older than the English word "God." It is my understanding Bibles in Arabic use Allah for God.
                Yeah, that was brought up many posts ago.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment

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