The Universe: Designed?

[shunyadragon]

Chaos needs order.

There is no evidence that Chaos without order ever existed. The Quantum world does show a predictable order. All our present evidence indicates that there is an underlying Natural Law for all our observations that is inherently a ordered universe.

Error/falsehood needs truth.

True, but it has not been decisively error/falsehood? and what is truth?. How do you objectively make this determination?

What we call evil needs good.

What do you call evil? What is specifically evil (or just plain bad stuff fallible humans do) and what is Good would probably viewed the same regardless of whether God existed or not.

[shunyadragon]

Please explain this modern understanding of infinities.

Read Infinity and the Mind by Rudy Rucker

One point, I already gave you is infinite series can only exist in a greater time frame. Infinities are basically unbounded, Beginnings occur within infinities. As I said Lucretius got it right over 2,000 years ago.

So are you contending existence then God, then Nature Law, then natural order? Please explain.

I am only contending that your argument is a bad argument. It is only an assertion. Yes, It is very logical to call it simply the cause of all things and the natural order of things governed by Natural Law in a very natural physical existence. I believe in God, but this logic is flawed at being circular with simply the purpose of justifying one's own beliefs. I believe God exists, and all Creation reflects the nature and existence of God. Natural Law simply reflects the will and intent of God. This is a belief, not an argument for the existence of God

It is a theory based on emperical observations made using MRI technology.

Only reflects the physical nature observations, not the cause or the ultimate source. It is a possibility, but [not] necessarily true.

Oh. OK. What is the correct premise or concepts that supersede this archaic math view. Please present what replaces what. Please be specific.

Ultimately infinities are unbounded. Infinite series and sets must exist within a greater time frame. Read Infinity and the Mind by Rudy Rucker

Please explain how Natural Law has any existence?

We observe the results everyday and every minute, second and hour as a matter of fact. Please explain why there is anything else necessary for anything else beside Natural Law causing natural existence. I believe Natural Reflects the will and purpose of God in Creation, but there is no evidence nor logical argument that can exclude the possibility that Natural Law simply exists and is the cause of our existence.

Do you know the difference between existence and cause? Please explain the distinction. What needs a cause cannot correctly be defined as God.

Yes, no problem about existence and cause. Simply as defined as in the English language. No need to explain the distinction. The cause of our physical existence can possibly be Natural Law, which is the only cause of anything we can objectively observe. If you assert everything needs a cause, then 'no special pleading allowed.' God needs a cause.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

One point, I already gave you is infinite series can only exist in a greater time frame. Infinities are basically unbounded, Beginnings occur within infinities. As I said Lucretius got it right over 2,000 years ago.

This is the second time you've said this, now, so I just can't let it go. Lucretius was a poet, not a mathematician, and he did not have a modern view of infinities. In fact, like pretty much every other person at the time, Lucretius' view of infinity was processional, and not as a completed quantity. The only ancient person who seems to have even come close to the modern understanding of infinities was Archimedes, and even his view is ponderously ancient in comparison to the modern, Cantorian approach.

Ultimately infinities are unbounded. Infinite series and sets must exist within a greater time frame. Read Infinity and the Mind by Rudy Rucker

Perhaps you should really take your own advice, here, because I don't think you quite understand the modern concept of infinities. An infinite series does not require any great amount of time, and an infinite series can most certainly be bounded. For example, there exists an infinite series of moments between now and the moment one second from now (assuming, of course, that time is not discrete). This infinite series of events does not require a "greater time frame" nor is it unbounded.

[firstfloor]

Jorge

Why would a designer or a god want to fine tune the universe unless he wanted to show off? Surely this is no more than excessive hubris and creepy attention seeking.

[Jorge]

Why would a designer or a god want to fine tune the universe unless he wanted to show off?
Surely this is no more than excessive hubris and creepy attention seeking.

Why would anyone outside the walls of an insane asylum post the above?
Surely this is no more than excessive hubris and creepy attention seeking.
Emphasis on the "creepy" part!

Jorge

[klaus54]

Why would anyone outside the walls of an insane asylum post the above?
Surely this is no more than excessive hubris and creepy attention seeking.
Emphasis on the "creepy" part!

Jorge

How does "fine tuning" fit into a YEC paradigm? Please be explicit.

Fine tuning is only significant in the context of deep time, where the constants are right for stars and planets and life to form.

Hey, and didn't Elohim "break" creation anyhoo? Where does fine tuning fit after the Fall?

Thanks in advance for your always cogent answer.

K54