Nature of Adam

[Child_Of_Wisdom]

How can God hold mankind to a perfect standard if it is impossible for someone with the nature of Adam to live without sin? Or is it possible for someone like Adam to go through life and avoid sin?

Did Adam sin purely because he had freewill and lacking experience of life meant he also lacked knowledge and wisdom and so desired them or was it because God created him with a weakness in his nature that made him susceptible to sin?

What were the key differences between Adam and Jesus? Could God have given Adam what Jesus had so he would not choose sin?

[Samuel]

Jesus was God in a body. Adam was created in Gods image and therefore was not God in a body. Jesus was completely perfect. Adam was not completely perfect. Adam had a free will and Eve freely chose to eat of the tree of good and evil. Adam disobeyed God because Eve came from Adam so therefore Adam was responsible. Both Adam and Eve were cursed accourding to what was due them.

The trinity is this:
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

Your last question, "Could God have given Adam what Jesus had so he would not choose sin?"
My answer: Yes, God could have made Adam perfect and then there would be no need for Jesus. I believe that God made Adam not completely perfect because if there was no sin how could God show his attributes to his creation.. or in other words show his love, mercy, and grace through Jesus Christ?

[Zxcv Bnm]

"So God created man...male and female he created them.... God saw all that he had made, and it was very good." Genesis 2:27-31. Anything less than perfect is hardly very good to God. God gave Adam a free will so that Adam could love God. Without free will, love is rendered meaningless.

[Child_Of_Wisdom]

Jesus was God in a body. Adam was created in Gods image and therefore was not God in a body. Jesus was completely perfect. Adam was not completely perfect. Adam had a free will and Eve freely chose to eat of the tree of good and evil. Adam disobeyed God because Eve came from Adam so therefore Adam was responsible. Both Adam and Eve were cursed accourding to what was due them.

The trinity is this:
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

Your last question, "Could God have given Adam what Jesus had so he would not choose sin?"
My answer: Yes, God could have made Adam perfect and then there would be no need for Jesus. I believe that God made Adam not completely perfect because if there was no sin how could God show his attributes to his creation.. or in other words show his love, mercy, and grace through Jesus Christ?

Why would he need to show his attributes if everybody accepts that he is completley good? Was it really worth it? Some people will never have acknowledged Gods attributes and will end up in hell for eternity.

[Samuel]

Why would he need to show his attributes if everybody accepts that he is completley good? Was it really worth it? Some people will never have acknowledged Gods attributes and will end up in hell for eternity.

Not everyone accept that he is completly good. Does an unregenerate who hates God accept that his attributes are completely good? You other question, "Was it really worth it?" To ask a question like that is to think that what God did was not good and therfore goes against what ur first statement was that everyone accepts that he is completely good. Then your last statement is contrary to your first statement. First you say that everyone would accept that he is completky good and then you go on to say that some will not acknowledge the very thing you said in your first statement. It is true though that many deny God's attributes, but just because they deny them doesn't send them to hell for eternity. They go to hell for eternity unless they are the "elect" whom God has saved already. Therefore all men are without excuse.

[Child_Of_Wisdom]

So if Adam was given what Jesus had he may not have accepted good was completely good? That seems like a sinful thought to me and it would seem that sinful thought leads to sinful actions. So do you believe someone could be created perfect and still be unregenerate?

It seems reasonable to believe that if it were possible for God to create man with freewill but also with the ability to avoid sin he would have done so. The idea that God created man with a weakness so that man would sin just so god can show how good he is seems very costly. If God could have created Adam better and despite his freewill he would never chosen to sin ,it seems reasonable to assume he would have done so. I don't see how Adam if created better (as you say he could have been) could not have fully accepted God was fully good or rejected that he was fully good.

As I believe God is good I also believe his creation is good.

[Samuel]

Well when you die and see God face to face you can ask him, "God why did you not make Adam better so that he did not sin?" What a most frightful question to ask your creator as if you are a athority higher than such! The mind is curious, I agree! But we should think cautiously before making haste questions to tickle the brain.

[A Beautiful Truth]

Well when you die and see God face to face you can ask him, "God why did you not make Adam better so that he did not sin?" What a most frightful question to ask your creator as if you are a athority higher than such! The mind is curious, I agree! But we should think cautiously before making haste questions to tickle the brain.

O' yes, It's always a good idea to threaten those who think too deeply. It's dangerous to think along ways you yourself do not. God is not big enough for big questions, I guess.

That is just terrible. Don't try to intimidate honest seekers. Fear and intimidation should never take the place of "I don't know and that is not a topic of interest for me."

[infide]

O' yes, It's always a good idea to threaten those who think too deeply. It's dangerous to think along ways you yourself do not. God is not big enough for big questions, I guess.

That is just terrible. Don't try to intimidate honest seekers. Fear and intimidation should never take the place of "I don't know and that is not a topic of interest for me."

right on.

[A Beautiful Truth]

How can God hold mankind to a perfect standard if it is impossible for someone with the nature of Adam to live without sin? Or is it possible for someone like Adam to go through life and avoid sin?

Did Adam sin purely because he had freewill and lacking experience of life meant he also lacked knowledge and wisdom and so desired them or was it because God created him with a weakness in his nature that made him susceptible to sin?

What were the key differences between Adam and Jesus? Could God have given Adam what Jesus had so he would not choose sin?

All very good questions. I'll take a stab at it.

Without the oppurtunity for true evil, love cannot be proven. Without real consequences, there cannot be true accountability. Without suffering, obedience cannot be learned.

God has put man in an environment that allows all these three to be worked out. These are for His glory, and man's blessing.

I think when God breathed the breath of life into man, man became morally accountable. I believe the Adam and Eve story reveals what happens to us all as we go through life. Parents of young children see the story played out almost daily.

I think man will always sin, not because God did not make him good, but that God allows man to go through life having a human nature. Human nature ensures man can be proven, be accountable, and learn obedience. These aspects are worth the "cost". Angels, who were created knowing God's goodness and majesty but still sinned, were not given the same environment as ours and there is no redemption for them.

Since there is a death penalty for sin, and that penalty was given when the first Adam sinned, we all have the death sentence because we all sin. It was for the first Adam the sentence was first given, he made "case law". We all get the same sentence as he. The penalty is death apart from Him. While we all continue to die physically, Christ redeemed us from the sting of death, sin; Christ paid our penalty. Now we have life, even in our mortal beings, and we have life even in death.

[smaller]

How can God hold mankind to a perfect standard if it is impossible for someone with the nature of Adam to live without sin?

Now you are just blaming Adam for "sin." God could have certainly made Adam impervious to sin. God must therefore have reasons to have bound His son (Luke 3:38) to disobedience then. After all The Father can certainly take exposure to any "thing" and it will not change Him. The son's are fated for the same.

Or is it possible for someone like Adam to go through life and avoid sin?

Only if God would have made your body sinless, but of course that is not what God did and even if so, the body can still suffer externally just via association with this current evironment, just as Jesus suffered.

God bound all men do disobedience in order to show Mercy to ALL. (Romans 11:32)

Did Adam sin purely because he had freewill

If Adam or any subsequent had "free" will they could say "I did not sin." Proof of freewill would be to prove ones self at least free of sin in "some individual examples." Since no man has "performed this" on their own their wills are certainly not free in terms of "performance" to eradicate sins from their bodies since all "have" sin as a present tense condition.

Sin therefore is a very real influence on the "will" rendering same far from "free."

Mankind's will's are not as free as God's by comparision, so then they are "limited." It is disingenuous to call "limited" free.

Mankind cannot quantify or justify that God does not interact with His creation i.e. the wills of mankind so the God's Will "factor" cannot be legitimately eliminated from interaction with the will's of mankind.

The final observation here is that only God is Perfect. Where does that leave every "thing" else??? Riggghtt. Less than God Perfect.

Know your position.

and lacking experience of life meant he also lacked knowledge and wisdom and so desired them or was it because God created him with a weakness in his nature that made him susceptible to sin?

Obviously God created Adam "corruptible." God could have certainly done otherwise.

What were the key differences between Adam and Jesus? Could God have given Adam what Jesus had so he would not choose sin?

The Body of Jesus was "created" but Jesus had The Spirit without Limit. As such there was no room for "error" in the body of Jesus.

God Is Love, therefore Love is The Word, The Spirit, and The Truth.

God also has purposes in judgment for those things that He has bound all men with. This in no way makes mankind the SAME AS that which we are all bound with.

God has placed all His offspring (Acts 17:25-31) into darkness, weakness, humility, and suffering and commanded us to BE PERFECT.

Love Is Perfect. Love can take any "thing."

enjoy!

smaller

[Alien]

O' yes, It's always a good idea to threaten those who think too deeply. It's dangerous to think along ways you yourself do not. God is not big enough for big questions, I guess.

That is just terrible. Don't try to intimidate honest seekers. Fear and intimidation should never take the place of "I don't know and that is not a topic of interest for me."

Hi Charleen.

I also think this was well said, and I'd like to expand on it if I may.

I just don't buy the picture of God that shows Him as being so protective of His own importance that the only relationship with us He will accept is one where we approach Him fearfully, crawling with our faces in the dust. It seems to me that this view of God was modelled on ancient potentates who did indeed demand that kind of subservience from their subjects. It's probably not surprising, because that was how authority figures tended to act back then (and some still do now!).

Now I think that might be a natural reaction to actually being in the presence of God, but I don't think it is what God demands. Instead, I would expect God to gently raise the human to his feet and reassure him of His love. On the subject you were addressing, I would expect God to be perfectly happy to answer any and all questions, after all why would he want to keep us in ignorance once we were in His presence? It might be that there are many things that we would not even then be equipped to understand, and then I would expect God to gently explain that too.

I know some people will be saying that God is so far above us that this kind of abject worship is the only thing that is appropriate. I say that because God is so far above us it doesn't threaten Him to meet us at our level (hey, hasn't he already done that?).

Tony

[Samuel]

Why can't people just accept what God has done instead of ask him questions? I know why, it's because of the flesh. Even the regenerated still have a flesh with sin. So why not, complain to God why he does the things he does and I wonder if he will complain about saving you.

[A Beautiful Truth]

Why can't people just accept what God has done instead of ask him questions? I know why, it's because of the flesh. Even the regenerated still have a flesh with sin. So why not, complain to God why he does the things he does and I wonder if he will complain about saving you.

Christ did not boot out Thomas, but then again, He has grace.

[PioneerSDA]

Dear Child of Wisdom,

How are you doing? It is blessed to see you again. When you get a chance please go to the How was Jesus aware of His divinity thread and see my reply to you.

How can God hold mankind to a perfect standard if it is impossible for someone with the nature of Adam to live without sin? Or is it possible for someone like Adam to go through life and avoid sin?

Did Adam sin purely because he had freewill and lacking experience of life meant he also lacked knowledge and wisdom and so desired them or was it because God created him with a weakness in his nature that made him susceptible to sin?

What were the key differences between Adam and Jesus? Could God have given Adam what Jesus had so he would not choose sin?

[How can God hold mankind to a perfect standard if it is impossible for someone with the nature of Adam to live without sin?]

Why shouldn't God hold mankind to an perfect standard? He created mankind perfect. It is impossible for God to create anything that is not perfect.

[Or is it possible for someone like Adam to go through life and avoid sin?]

Yes, it was very possible for Adam to live with out sin. Let's use the perfect angels as an example. Lucifer and one third of the angels chose to sin. Two thirds chose not to. They all were perfect creations and they all had free will similar to how Adam and Eve were created perfect and they had free will.

[Did Adam sin purely because he had freewill and lacking experience of life meant he also lacked knowledge and wisdom and so desired them or was it because God created him with a weakness in his nature that made him susceptible to sin?]

Adam sinned because he loved his wife more than he loved God. The only experience he lacked was the sinful experience which he would have been better without. The only knowledge he lacked was evil knowledge. Adam was more knowledgable than any man. It would have been impossible for God to create Adam with any weakness in his nature.



[What were the key differences between Adam and Jesus? Could God have given Adam what Jesus had so he would not choose sin?]

Jesus the only born Son of God created Adam and everything else with a sinless nature but Adam sinned and gave all of his children a sinful nature so when Jesus was born as a human He was born with a sinful nature but his Divine nature helped him overcome sin. Surely since Jesus was born from God in eternity before all of creation and inherited all of His Father's divine attributes and divine nature He still isn't the same person or any part of God the Father. For "God can not be tempted with evil" and Jesus was "tempted in all points just as we are" Jesus had a free will just like Adam did. He could have chose to sin and be lost but He loved God more than anything.

Ephesians 1:17 is my sincere prayer for you and your family "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ the Father of glory may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowlege of Him"