The Greatest Nation in the World EVER was....

[Darth Executor]

I am not sure who the "its", "they" and "their" are in your comment.

Yea, it was a bit confusing. Here's a basic outline:

Hitler leads a pissed off Germany(we can thank France and the good old USA for it) in an attempt to take over the world. As Europe is fighting for its survival the US sits back and does nothing. When Germany becomes exhausted then the US comes in with fresh troops from a nation far away that never suffered any attacks on its cities, and uses those fresh troops to beat a worn out enemy then has the audacity to declare itself a "Hero" despite the fact that if the US wouldn't have gotten involved it wouldn't have:

A: Been able to take on a Germany that recovered from the war in Europe
B: Get rich from selling weapons and helping rebuild Europe.

Not to mention the fact that they allowed the communist dogs to take over half of Europe and start the cold war which wasn't particularly fun either. Luckily, the US seems to have gotten its act together lately (2xIraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, etc...) but to go so far as to thank it for our freedom is a bit of a stretch.

[Darth Executor]

As for the USA being the reason that the Allies won WW2 - no. That honour belongs to the USSR.

No, it belongs to Russia, the US and Britain with the US being the most important. Hitler would have wiped russia out if the US hadn't provided them with equipment.

[Arnold]

Yea, it was a bit confusing. Here's a basic outline:

Hitler leads a pissed off Germany(we can thank France and the good old USA for it) in an attempt to take over the world. As Europe is fighting for its survival the US sits back and does nothing. When Germany becomes exhausted then the US comes in with fresh troops from a nation far away that never suffered any attacks on its cities, and uses those fresh troops to beat a worn out enemy then has the audacity to declare itself a "Hero" despite the fact that if the US wouldn't have gotten involved it wouldn't have:

A: Been able to take on a Germany that recovered from the war in Europe
B: Get rich from selling weapons and helping rebuild Europe.

Not to mention the fact that they allowed the communist dogs to take over half of Europe and start the cold war which wasn't particularly fun either. Luckily, the US seems to have gotten its act together lately (2xIraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, etc...) but to go so far as to thank it for our freedom is a bit of a stretch.

So WW2 is America's fault?

And they deserve only derision for getting "rich from selling weapons and helping rebuild Europe"?

This smilie is getting a workout.

[Darth Executor]

So WW2 is America's fault?

A bit of America's fault. And mostly France's.

And they deserve only derision for getting "rich from selling weapons and helping rebuild Europe"?

From my point of view they deserve a kick in the teeth. I'd take the nazis over the communists any day.

[James Peter]

No, it belongs to Russia, the US and Britain with the US being the most important. Hitler would have wiped russia out if the US hadn't provided them with equipment.

'Providing Equipment' and making money doesn't compare to causing and sustaining more than 75% of the casualties in a conflict. In a single battle the Russians destroyed the equivelant to all the German forces on the Western Front. They paid in blood and tears, as did the occupied territories and beseiged Britain. If the US had intervened earlier, defending Poland alongside Britain and France, then there is a very real possibility that the war would have been much shorter, much genocide may have been avoided and the Cold War as we know it would never have happened.

I'm glad America finally got involved when they did, but their contribution is nothing compared to those who had already been fighting for years.

[Darth Executor]

'Providing Equipment' and making money doesn't compare to causing and sustaining more than 75% of the casualties in a conflict. In a single battle the Russians destroyed the equivelant to all the German forces on the Western Front.Using american weapons They paid in blood and tears, as did the occupied territories and beseiged Britain.

Yes, my country was an occupied territory, but it paid in blood because they had to side with the NAZIs to protect themselves from the communists. Frankly, the russians deserved every single casualty they got. They had no problem tearing through east europe and sharing it with Hitler before and during the beginning of WW2. In addition, the ammount of blood they suffered does not mean they deserve more credit. They were mostly unarmed country thugs that Stalin sent to the slaughterhouse and would have achieved nothing if the US hadn't intervened both to supply them and create a second front.

If the US had intervened earlier, defending Poland alongside Britain and France, then there is a very real possibility that the war would have been much shorter, much genocide may have been avoided and the Cold War as we know it would never have happened.

I agree on this, which is why I'm a bit skeptical about kneeling before americans and praising them as "liberators"

I'm glad America finally got involved when they did, but their contribution is nothing compared to those who had already been fighting for years.

I disagree. All russia did was provide targets for the germans to practice with for most of the war. Like my grandmother used to say:

"The russians kept coming and the germans kept shooting. The germans ran out of ammo."

[TheOneAndOnly]

It is thanks to America that the world does not speak German and Japanese or Russian.

Yes, because speaking German would bring the downfall of civilization.

I still claim that Britain is/was the greatest nation ever.
1)We started Parliamentary democracy. Our parliament isn't known as "the mother of all parliaments" for nothing. British inspired democracy has led to the creation of numerous successfuil nations; India; Australia; South Africa (since Apartheid); New Zealand; Canada; various Carribean nations etc.
2) The English language has become an international language transcending geographical boundaries. Although much of this can be attributed to America, the British Empire spread the English language far and wide. English - the language of England is now a global language.
3) Britain, has given the world some of its greatest thinkers, writers and poets - Newton, Shakespeare, Russell, Babbage, Darwin, Mills, Maxwell, Chaucer, Chesterton, Dickens, Cayley, Hume etc.
4) Britain has given the world some of its greatest adventurers and explorers - Drake, Raleigh, Scott, Livingstone, Shackleton, Gordon.
5) Britain created the largest empire in history. Covering 1/4 of the world. And all this with relatively little warfare. We held India with a few thousand soldiers and civil servents.
6) Britain invented the steam locomotive, the battleship, television, the computer (arguably), various farming innovations etc.
... and all this from a tiny windswept island on the edge of Europe.

[bhukkadakota]

I think i agree with the oneandonly, the british empire was a great empire, and most likely the greatest empire ever. In one attack they wiped out the spanish and portugese fleets to gain navel dominence. I would have thought south africa was mainly the dutch wasnt it?

[TheOneAndOnly]

I would have thought south africa was mainly the dutch wasnt it?

It was first settled (from Europe) by the Dutch. Britain fought a couple of nasty wars in the late 19th century to get them into line, after we discovered gold and minerals in the area.

[Arnold]

Yes, because speaking German would bring the downfall of civilization.

I still claim that Britain is/was the greatest nation ever.
1)We started Parliamentary democracy. Our parliament isn't known as "the mother of all parliaments" for nothing. British inspired democracy has led to the creation of numerous successfuil nations; India; Australia; South Africa (since Apartheid); New Zealand; Canada; various Carribean nations etc.
2) The English language has become an international language transcending geographical boundaries. Although much of this can be attributed to America, the British Empire spread the English language far and wide. English - the language of England is now a global language.
3) Britain, has given the world some of its greatest thinkers, writers and poets - Newton, Shakespeare, Russell, Babbage, Darwin, Mills, Maxwell, Chaucer, Chesterton, Dickens, Cayley, Hume etc.
4) Britain has given the world some of its greatest adventurers and explorers - Drake, Raleigh, Scott, Livingstone, Shackleton, Gordon.
5) Britain created the largest empire in history. Covering 1/4 of the world. And all this with relatively little warfare. We held India with a few thousand soldiers and civil servents.
6) Britain invented the steam locomotive, the battleship, television, the computer (arguably), various farming innovations etc.
... and all this from a tiny windswept island on the edge of Europe.

I thought you only had disdain for empire-building (at least when you accuse the US of it). But Britain's empire is something to laud, huh? Between this contradiction and the one on Iran in the other thread, this just hasn't been your day.

[Arnold]

Yes, because speaking German would bring the downfall of civilization.

Oh sheesh - I almost missed that. Are you suggesting by your sarcasm that it would have been civilized if Hitler had taken over the world?

[Darth Executor]

Oh sheesh - I almost missed that. Are you suggesting by your sarcasm that it would have been civilized if Hitler had taken over the world?

If he's not, then I am. I doubt Hitler's anti-semitism would have lasted long. Frankly, the concentration camp thing is the only beef I have with Hitler. I honestly think a german take-over would have been much better than the soviet mess.

[Arnold]

Woe! The kooks are out tonight...

[TheOneAndOnly]

I thought you only had disdain for empire-building (at least when you accuse the US of it).

In the modern world yes. However if you put the British Empire into historical context it is a remarkable feat.
The empire didn't start off as an empire of conquest. Britain didn't want to set up trading outposts and colonies to rival other European nations. Remarkably few battles of significance were fought in the creation of the British empire considering it's vast size.
In the 18th and early 19th century the empire was a somewhat enlightened concept. The idea was to bring education, trade and British values around the globe, which was probably in some way to counter the French and Dutch influences around the world. Briths merchants would take Indian wives and there was a great cross cultural respect for India. And although India wasn't technically ruled by Britain, we extended so much influence over the subcontinent as to stifle the inter-religious and inter-racial fighting which had raged for centuries. Britain's colonies in Australia and Canada, although quite brutal sometimes to the indegineous inhabitants were nothing like previous empires had wrought on their subjects, like Caesar annihilating the Gauls or the Spanish in South America or Belgians in the Congo. The empire was quite a forward-looking machine.
And then, starting around the mid 19th century and continuing towards WW1, things took a a sinister turn. Fear of Russian advances in central Asia, the need to halt Britain's economic decline and the mutinee in India caused Britain to reasess its Imperial ambitions.
Britain did some shameful things in this period, the scramble for Africa, making India a formal Imperial possession and supressing any dissent among others.
However if you look at the overall acheivements of the empire I think it's clear that it did bring a lot of good to the world, more good than bad anyway.
People thing of the Roman empire as a high point of classical civilization even though it was a brutal and murderous empire. In future centuries I expect people will look back fondly of the British Empire. Of course not in America where the empire has to be seen to be the big bad nemesis of the plucky revolutionaries. ;)

So in the modern world I see no reason for American Imperialism, or British imperialism. I'm simply stating what I believe, that the British empire happened, you can't chnage that. And it did a lot of good to the world.

[CatholicSage]

It's a close race between Rome and Britain, but I'll take Rome because its achievements were earlier, and have had more time to blossom into much of civilization as we know it today.