The Greatest Nation in the World EVER was....

[TheOneAndOnly]

I find it disturbing that people like murderers.

I model myself on Hannibal Lecter.

[Conductor42]

Then why didn't you say so in the first place instead of insinuating that I somehow thought it was justified?

I assumed you had enough brain power to figure out that i was responding to the post of yours I quoted.

And where does this "tens of millions" come from? It seems an incredible number...

According to my current history teacher (who is very conservative, btw), there were approximately 72 million Native Americans before immigrated here.

[Arnold]

I assumed you had enough brain power to figure out that i was responding to the post of yours I quoted.

Sheesh! I am really beginning to think it is not possible to have a rational discussion with you.

According to my current history teacher (who is very conservative, btw), there were approximately 72 million Native Americans before immigrated here.

I find that extremely hard to believe. Where are these mass graves?

[Conductor42]

Sheesh! I am really beginning to think it is not possible to have a rational discussion with you.

It is possible when you are respectful to people. But, you are rarely respectful to those who disagree with you and so I don't feel the need to extend that courteousy to you. I'll be 120% blunt with you, and expect you to do the same.

I find that extremely hard to believe. Where are these mass graves?

My professor also noted that the estimates range between 50-110 million natives (on both continents). Mexico alone had 18 million residents.

Columbus himself, though pre-American, butchered as many as 8 million natives - which led to the extermination of the Taino. The blame for most of the South American genocides lays on Spain. North American massacres are mostly split between us and the English. That being said, I think people who claim we have to repay for something our ancestors from hundreds of years ago did are absolute idiots.

Columbus's programs reduced Taino numbers from as
many as eight million at the outset of his regime to about three
million in 1496. Perhaps 100,000 were left by the time of the
governor's departure. His policies, however, remained, with the
result that by 1514 the Spanish census of the island showed barely
22,000 Indians remaining alive. In 1542, only two hundred were recorded.

http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

[Amazing Rando]

My professor also noted that the estimates range between 50-110 million natives (on both continents). Mexico alone had 18 million residents.

Columbus himself, though pre-American, butchered as many as 8 million natives - which led to the extermination of the Taino. The blame for most of the South American genocides lays on Spain. North American massacres are mostly split between us and the English. That being said, I think people who claim we have to repay for something our ancestors from hundreds of years ago did are absolute idiots.



http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

While true, don't forget that millions more who were not killed by American and British swords or firearms died from epidemics brought over by the Europeans for which the Native Americans had no immunity.

[Arnold]

It is possible when you are respectful to people. But, you are rarely respectful to those who disagree with you and so I don't feel the need to extend that courteousy to you. I'll be 120% blunt with you, and expect you to do the same.

Uh... you are the one who suggested that I justified mass murder - very "respectful" of you...

My professor also noted that the estimates range between 50-110 million natives (on both continents). Mexico alone had 18 million residents.

Columbus himself, though pre-American, butchered as many as 8 million natives - which led to the extermination of the Taino. The blame for most of the South American genocides lays on Spain. North American massacres are mostly split between us and the English. That being said, I think people who claim we have to repay for something our ancestors from hundreds of years ago did are absolute idiots.



http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

I find all of these numbers too incredible to believe.

[Conductor42]

Uh... you are the one who suggested that I justified mass murder - very "respectful" of you...

You said that the good we've done outweighs the evil we've done. Mass Murder is one of those evils. Sounds like justifying something to me.

I find all of these numbers too incredible to believe.

Why is it hard for you to believe those numbers (some of which were taken from MIT)? Do you have a hard time with similar numbers from the European nations too?

[Amazing Rando]

I find all of these numbers too incredible to believe.

There are those who say the same thing of the 6 million Jews murdered during the Holocaust.

[Anoetos]

Wow, Rando, when you poison a well you use enough poison to make sure everyone dies, doncha?

Now disputing numbers given by Zinn and others is roughly the same as being a denier of the Shoah?

[Arnold]

There are those who say the same thing of the 6 million Jews murdered during the Holocaust.

Nice...

[Amazing Rando]

Wow, Rando, when you poison a well you use enough poison to make sure everyone dies, doncha?

I use genocidal well-poison.

Now disputing numbers given by Zinn and others is roughly the same as being a denier of the Shoah?

In terms of methodology... it might as well be. Incredulity seems to be the only methodological criticism of the numbers offered thus far.

[Arnold]

You said that the good we've done outweighs the evil we've done. Mass Murder is one of those evils. Sounds like justifying something to me.

You are pathetic...

Why is it hard for you to believe those numbers (some of which were taken from MIT)? Do you have a hard time with similar numbers from the European nations too?

Those are numbers that nuts like Ward Churchill throw around - he's a proven liar.

[Arnold]

In terms of methodology... it might as well be. Incredulity seems to be the only methodological criticism of the numbers offered thus far.

So you think some sort of link war will settle this? Try some Google searches - you'll find the numbers vary by incredible amounts depending on what you read. Here's just one:

Scholars' estimates on the population of indiginous peoples in both Americas at the time of Columbus vary from 8 million to 112 million.

[Amazing Rando]

Hey Arnold, I'm sorry. That was an extraordinarily uncharitable thing for me to say about you and I deeply regret it.

[Arnold]

Hey Arnold, I'm sorry. That was an extraordinarily uncharitable thing for me to say about you and I deeply regret it.

OK