The Greatest Nation in the World EVER was....

[Conductor42]

Uh, it was your oh so important UN who nixed going after Saddam the first time.

We wouldn't have had to go in at all if we hadn't suddently stopped supplying the Iraqi rebels who had nearly won the civil war and overthrown Saddam (they had overthrown all but one province).

[Conductor42]

Canada isn't that much different, overall.

Try going for somewhere that isn't sharing a border with America.

Well if that was aimed at me, I live in Caknuckleheadland - and believe me when I say that a lot of Caknuckleheads hate America. So my view of the world is not "only through their American spectacles".

[Conductor42]

The real point is that you accused me of justifying mass murder. You make me out to be some sort of monster because I see America as a net benefit to the world. Buzz off jerk...

I only asked a question. You said that America has done more harm than good. I'm asking if you really think that the mass murder of tens of millioins of Native Americans was outweighted by the good that America has done so far.

...and I have yet to recieve a response. You still seem to be in Holocaust denial.

[Arnold]

I only asked a question. You said that America has done more harm than good. I'm asking if you really think that the mass murder of tens of millioins of Native Americans was outweighted by the good that America has done so far.

...and I have yet to recieve a response. You still seem to be in Holocaust denial.

Are you really so stupid as to think I wouldn'd go back and throw your words in your face?!?

Do the ends justify the means?

Is the murder of tens of milions of Native Americans justified?

You said that the good we've done outweighs the evil we've done. Mass Murder is one of those evils. Sounds like justifying something to me.

First you accuse me of justifying mass muder. Then you deny it. Are your brains really so scrambled?

[anthrogirl]

Well if that was aimed at me, I live in Caknuckleheadland - and believe me when I say that a lot of Caknuckleheads hate America. So my view of the world is not "only through their American spectacles".

Nope. I wasn't referring to you. But thank you for sharing your perspective. I am curious though--what is your point in saying "a lot of Caknuckleheads hate America"?

best,
ag

[Ruth]

Yes Anthrogirl most Americans have a very myopic view of the world indeed. I often hear them say America is the greatest country in the world. When I ask them how many countries they're been to I get the same answer. Most will never travel overseas. The few who do never look at America the same way again. Eye opening is a mild term I think.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Uh, it was your oh so important UN who nixed going after Saddam the first time.

Not really. What I said was the US riled up the Shi'ites to revolt against Hussein. Had we given them some air support, they could have taken Hussein down. At the very least, we could have prevented the slaughter.

And when you say America "abandoned" the Afghans you suggest that America was taking care of them in the first place - all the States did was help them militarily.

We helped fight a de facto war against the Soviets.

When that military aid was no longer needed it ended. And aren't you one of the liberals that are always whining that America is so evil because we helped OBL during the Afghan/Soviet war?!? You can't have it both ways...

The issue at hand was using Afghanistan as a platform for our Cold War against the Soviet Union. Had the US helped to rebuild Afghanistan after the invasion was repelled, the vaccum that formed in Afghanistan wouldn't have existed for Pakistan to place the Taliban in. OBL may never have become the man he is today had we rebuilt Afghanistan. Alot of ifs or coulds, however, certainly thoughts worth pondering.

This is such a stretch

Your posts typically are stretches.

- why are you sooooo determined to show that America is evil?

I'm hardly "sooooo determined" to any such thing. I already noted that the "US is worthy of some praise." Can't praise something if it's evil. The US has helped to contribute alot to the world. The Constitution in of itself perhaps it's greatest gift, the first successful large scale democracy in the world's history. Since then, there has been good and bad. We tipped the scales in WWI. We won WWII. However, we did some damage in the Cold War. Did some good too in the Cold War as well.

It seems you will grasp at anything - please explain to me why anyone reading your desperate attemps should not come to the conclusion that you just plain hate America...

Such a grandiose statement, such a harsh and biting claim. It can only come from someone who is indoctrinated by a cult of some sort. I most certainly don't hate America. Despite the Bush Administration, the US is honestly the best country to live in. This isn't opinion, it's fact... atleast from a heterosexual white male's point of view. This doesn't preclude America's responsibility for mistakes though. Nor does it mean the US is infalliable. The US, for the longest time, was able to enact foreign policy without ever having to see it's results or suffer the burden of it's mistakes.

Just because you don't bother to accept the reality that America is capable of messing up, like it has in the Middle East, time and time again, doesn't mean America doesn't screw up and have their actions hurt foreign innocents. The US applied democracy and rewards innovation. It offers the most freedoms to individuals than any other country, I believe. This doesn't mean American actions with other countries haven't had deleterious effects. The recognition of error is a foundation of strength not of hatred.

[Arnold]

Nope. I wasn't referring to you. But thank you for sharing your perspective. I am curious though--what is your point in saying "a lot of Caknuckleheads hate America"?

best,
ag

Well you seemed to have been saying that Americans don't hear the negative side about America. I just wanted to illustrate that I hear lots of it, and I still see it as "The Greatest Nation in the World EVER was...."

[Arnold]

Not really. What I said was the US riled up the Shi'ites to revolt against Hussein. Had we given them some air support, they could have taken Hussein down. At the very least, we could have prevented the slaughter.
We helped fight a de facto war against the Soviets.
The issue at hand was using Afghanistan as a platform for our Cold War against the Soviet Union. Had the US helped to rebuild Afghanistan after the invasion was repelled, the vaccum that formed in Afghanistan wouldn't have existed for Pakistan to place the Taliban in. OBL may never have become the man he is today had we rebuilt Afghanistan. Alot of ifs or coulds, however, certainly thoughts worth pondering.

Your posts typically are stretches.
I'm hardly "sooooo determined" to any such thing. I already noted that the "US is worthy of some praise." Can't praise something if it's evil. The US has helped to contribute alot to the world. The Constitution in of itself perhaps it's greatest gift, the first successful large scale democracy in the world's history. Since then, there has been good and bad. We tipped the scales in WWI. We won WWII. However, we did some damage in the Cold War. Did some good too in the Cold War as well.

Such a grandiose statement, such a harsh and biting claim. It can only come from someone who is indoctrinated by a cult of some sort. I most certainly don't hate America. Despite the Bush Administration, the US is honestly the best country to live in. This isn't opinion, it's fact... atleast from a heterosexual white male's point of view. This doesn't preclude America's responsibility for mistakes though. Nor does it mean the US is infalliable. The US, for the longest time, was able to enact foreign policy without ever having to see it's results or suffer the burden of it's mistakes.

Just because you don't bother to accept the reality that America is capable of messing up, like it has in the Middle East, time and time again, doesn't mean America doesn't screw up and have their actions hurt foreign innocents. The US applied democracy and rewards innovation. It offers the most freedoms to individuals than any other country, I believe. This doesn't mean American actions with other countries haven't had deleterious effects. The recognition of error is a foundation of strength not of hatred.

Well that's all I wanted - an explanation. You are just about the most consistently negative poster when it comes to tearing down America. I just wanted to read with my own eyes that you don't hate America, because I was really starting to wonder...

[anthrogirl]

Well you seemed to have been saying that Americans don't hear the negative side about America. I just wanted to illustrate that I hear lots of it, and I still see it as "The Greatest Nation in the World EVER was...."

Nope. What I said was:

It's very easy to think that one's country is infallible if one never leaves their country. To my knowledge, Americans tend to stay in America. This means that they can view the world only through their American spectacles.

ag

I made no value statements about negative/positive perceptions of America. At any rate, what point were you trying to make when you said "a lot of Canuckleheads hate America"? I want to know what you mean by that, or were you just using that statement as artillery against America? I found your statement to be a bit vague, and I'm respectfully requesting that you elaborate, so that I may better understand you.

thanks,
ag

[Arnold]

Nope. What I said was:



I made no value statements about negative/positive perceptions of America. At any rate, what point were you trying to make when you said "a lot of Canuckleheads hate America"? I want to know what you mean by that, or were you just using that statement as artillery against America? I found your statement to be a bit vague, and I'm respectfully requesting that you elaborate, so that I may better understand you.

thanks,
ag

Oh brother...

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well that's all I wanted - an explanation. You are just about the most consistently negative poster when it comes to tearing down America. I just wanted to read with my own eyes that you don't hate America, because I was really starting to wonder...

My actions speak louder than your words regarding how each of us feel about this country.

[Arnold]

My actions speak louder than your words regarding how each of us feel about this country.

Well I can only see your words, and they don't paint a pretty picture.

[Conductor42]

Are you really so stupid as to think I wouldn'd go back and throw your words in your face?!?

First you accuse me of justifying mass muder. Then you deny it. Are your brains really so scrambled?

Those quotes prove my point.

First I asked you if the ends justified the means, and if the mass murder of Native Americans was justified.

Then I pointed out that what you were saying "sounds" like justification.


Are your brains really so scrambled that you couldn't figure that out?

[CatholicSage]

Yes Anthrogirl most Americans have a very myopic view of the world indeed. I often hear them say America is the greatest country in the world. When I ask them how many countries they're been to I get the same answer. Most will never travel overseas. The few who do never look at America the same way again. Eye opening is a mild term I think.

I've been to Canada, Mexico, Poland, Germany, the Czech Republic, and soon Japan, and I still think America is the greatest country in the world right now, as great as those other countries may be. Why do you think Americans who travel dislike America after doing so?

BTW, what makes you think that people from other countries have a much less myopic view of the world? That is your implication at any rate, and I certainly don't appreciate it; it reveals more about your own ignorance than that of Americans. People from other countries are hardly all enlightened internationalists.