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  • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
    What do you define as prophecy?

    I generally think of prophecy (in the context of tongues and interpretation of tongues) as simply proclaiming a much needed word of encouragement...usually, it is specific to the congregation it is given to...but sometimes is just a general edification of the body or exhortation.
    Yeah, I can honestly say that when I've heard people giving what was claimed to be a prophecy or interpretation of tongues (and the verdict on its veracity is still out for me), it was never some novel doctrine or weird bit of theology. It always simply reaffirmed what scripture already had to say. As you say, it was almost always some general edification or exhortation related to those within the immediate congregation.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      Yeah, I can honestly say that when I've heard people giving what was claimed to be a prophecy or interpretation of tongues (and the verdict on its veracity is still out for me), it was never some novel doctrine or weird bit of theology. It always simply reaffirmed what scripture already had to say. As you say, it was almost always some general edification or exhortation related to those within the immediate congregation.
      Well, I wouldn't define prophecy as general edification, exhortation, or word of encouragement; those are spiritual gifts other than prophecy. Prophecy is, well, prophetic (like the statement of the girl in my post above).
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Well, I wouldn't define prophecy as general edification, exhortation, or word of encouragement; those are spiritual gifts other than prophecy. Prophecy is, well, prophetic (like the statement of the girl in my post above).
        1 Corinthians 14:3-4 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Well, I wouldn't define prophecy as general edification, exhortation, or word of encouragement; those are spiritual gifts other than prophecy. Prophecy is, well, prophetic (like the statement of the girl in my post above).
          It doesn't have to be "fortelling the future. It can simply mean speaking for God.

          Here is an excerpt from the the AOG.org's - website enrichment journal.

          Source: The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit Series; Gifts of Speech; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 10:59 AM CST; Gifts of Speech; Part 4 in a series on Spiritual Gifts in the Church Today; By Douglas A. Oss


          Prophecy

          New Testament usage of propheteia indicates that prophecy was a spontaneous act of inspired speech — as opposed to a prepared study from the Scriptures — but not inspired in the same sense as the canon. The content of the utterances appears to have been predictive (e.g., Acts 11:28; 21:10) in a manner that was at the same time hortatory in nature (e.g., 1 Corinthians 14:20–26; 1 Peter 1:10–12). Prophetic ministry was significant enough in the New Testament that those who were appointed by the Lord as prophets were listed second only to apostles in Ephesians 4:11.

          Prophecy both predicts future events (Acts 11:28; 21:10,11) and reads the secrets of individual hearts (1 Corinthians 14:20–26) in order to provide corporate or personal exhortation.

          Interpretation of Tongues

          The interpretation of tongues refers to the translation (hermeneuo and its cognates) of the utterance given in an unknown language. This translation puts the content of the message into the language of the congregation so that all may be edified. Unless the message makes sense to the hearers, there can be no edification (1 Corinthians 14:1–19).

          With regard to tongues in worship, our traditional practice is that interpretations are almost always prophetic in content — the interpretations are virtually always from God to man. The teaching of 1 Corinthians 14:1–5 indicates that prophecy is equivalent to tongues interpretation in terms of edification but neither states nor implies that the content will be identical. While there is no biblical warrant to argue that our traditional practice is wrong, there is ample evidence in 1 Corinthians and Acts to suggest that the content of tongues can also be speech from the human spirit to God.

          Thus, at least some of the time, the content of the interpretation will be speech to God in the form of a prayer, a praise, a thanksgiving, or a song.

          © Copyright Original Source



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          Copyright 2015 The General Council of the Assemblies of God
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          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
            Yeah, I can honestly say that when I've heard people giving what was claimed to be a prophecy or interpretation of tongues (and the verdict on its veracity is still out for me), it was never some novel doctrine or weird bit of theology. It always simply reaffirmed what scripture already had to say. As you say, it was almost always some general edification or exhortation related to those within the immediate congregation.
            Right, prophecy is literally "Speaking for God". So, it can be, but is not necessarily a foretelling of the future. I have been prophesied over that WAS a future event... and it's basically come true...

            Where would you say your hang up is? What would help you with ascertaining it's veracity...(in your mind)?
            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              1 Corinthians 14:3-4 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
              I agree that prophecy does that, but IMO it does not define prophecy.

              LJ: A prophet can and does speak for God, but prophecy is explicitly a foretelling; note the criteria for determining whether or not a prophet is false (which I can't find at the moment ). And the AOG's interpretation of 1 Cor 14:20-26 (the only thing I have time to check at the moment - gotta run) is reading into the text what it wants to see IMO.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                I agree that prophecy does that, but IMO it does not define prophecy.

                LJ: A prophet can and does speak for God, but prophecy is explicitly a foretelling; note the criteria for determining whether or not a prophet is false (which I can't find at the moment ). And the AOG's interpretation of 1 Cor 14:20-26 (the only thing I have time to check at the moment - gotta run) is reading into the text what it wants to see IMO.
                You can certainly argue that and believe that if you wish...I don't think it's so. For instance, The NAS Greek Lexicon says:

                The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
                Definition
                1. prophecy
                  1. a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events
                  2. Used in the NT of the utterance of OT prophets
                    1. of the prediction of events relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions pertaining to it, the spirit of prophecy, the divine mind, to which the prophetic faculty is due
                    2. of the endowment and speech of the Christian teachers called prophets
                    3. the gifts and utterances of these prophets, esp. of the predictions of the works of which, set apart to teach the gospel, will accomplish for the kingdom of Christ




                LINKY

                I think it certainly can and does mean foretelling, but it also has forthtelling in it's range of meaning. See 1. a. definition
                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                Comment


                • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  LJ: A prophet can and does speak for God, but prophecy is explicitly a foretelling; note the criteria for determining whether or not a prophet is false (which I can't find at the moment ). And the AOG's interpretation of 1 Cor 14:20-26 (the only thing I have time to check at the moment - gotta run) is reading into the text what it wants to see IMO.
                  I am guessing you are referring to Deut. 18?

                  I think multiple issues will come up:

                  1. Is the nature OT prophecy synonymous with NT prophecy?

                  2. Is the nature of the listener the same from the OT to the NT? (priest and people, vs. priesthood of believers)

                  3. Even with the OT prophets, their 'prophecy' was not limited to explicitly 'foretelling'. The message was often exhortation for Israel to turn back to the LORD. [the key sign of the false prophet (see below) is that they would turn people away from God]

                  4. When looking at Deut. and the nature of the prophet and discernment - foretelling was not the only issue / criteria. Rather, IMO, the bigger and more important criteria is whether the prophet caused them to turn away from the LORD. (the 'or' in Deut. 18:22 could just as easily be translated 'and') Remember, Deut. 18 would be against the backdrop of what was already said in Deut. 13:

                  If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.


                  The other thing to consider is what Adrift mentioned...


                  1 Corinthians 14:3
                  On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation



                  It seems to me that Paul is not defining prophecy per se, but he is stating its purpose -- and so the design is based on the purpose. If a 'prophecy' does the exact opposite of these things (causing fear, discouragement, division, etc.), you can probably be sure that it is not from God.

                  That being said, I do think the verse is clear in defining the purpose and intent of true prophecy and thus cannot be discounted when discussing the nature of prophecy and what prophecy is, is not, and what it is limited to.



                  Just some things to think about....
                  Last edited by phat8594; 02-18-2015, 05:52 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                    Right, prophecy is literally "Speaking for God". So, it can be, but is not necessarily a foretelling of the future. I have been prophesied over that WAS a future event... and it's basically come true...
                    Yes, that's how I understand it as well.

                    Where would you say your hang up is? What would help you with ascertaining it's veracity...(in your mind)?
                    I don't know. I think part of it has to do with wondering if there's any strong linguistic backing to the type of tongues I'm familiar with. I've read linguists attempting to decipher speaking in tongues, and they found that it bore little but superficial resemblance to an actual language. Course there are all sorts of variables that may account for that.

                    I also know of a number of apostates who've claimed to speak in tongues when they were Christians, and as far as I know, they were still capable of doing so, and that made curious. I think that can be accounted for too, but its still strange.

                    Finally, I've heard people who, as far as know, were never Christians, who used some form of glossolalia. Usually in things like performance art (Diamanda Galas comes to mind). Again, I can think of things that would account for that, but its a cumulative thing I suppose.

                    The prophecy and interpretation of tongues I'm familiar with often times were vague enough that, while occasionally they prophesied a pretty precise future event, what was being spoken could have been good guess work. Or if it was an exhortation, it seemed to me to be, again, pretty broad and vague.

                    I don't know. Its one of those areas in my walk that I do not dismiss, but that I'm left with enough questions that I put it to the side until I can have more understanding. I suppose I really ought to pray about it.

                    Comment


                    • We've seen in our own lives that the study of scripture is difficult because the matter is vast and complex, so it's not surprising that Paul does not forbid speaking in tongue in public, as long as it is interpreted. It's the only way that complex teachings important for growth can be extracted from scripture. So prophecy apart from foretelling, encouraging, warning against sin, is, in the main, opening mysteries:

                      1 Corinthians 4:1This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

                      1 Corinthians 13:2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and
                      if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing

                      Daniel 2:29"As Your Majesty was lying there, your mind turned to things to come, and the
                      revealer of mysteries showed you what is going to happen.

                      Daniel 2:28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries.

                      Job 11:7Can you solve the mysteries of God?

                      Luke 8:10And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of
                      God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND


                      Daniel 2:47The king said to Daniel, "Surely your God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings
                      and a revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery.


                      Luke 8:10And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.




                      Again, mysteries is flowery speech for complex teachings, doctrine, which are different for different people groups. The church in Corinth, Phillipi, etc. would have more difficulty than that in Jerusalem, being in the west and being Gentile. Today we are further separated from both, both in distance as well as in time.

                      Of course the churches could come up with pretty strange conclusions needing Paul to get back to them with his final pronouncements, as in his ruling on the rule of women in public, staying that in the church of God, he accepted no other practice than his own view.

                      Philippians 4:12I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need.


                      Pulpit commentary

                      Quote
                      Verse 12. - I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound. St. Paul had experience both of sorrow and of joy, both of distress and of comfort; he knew how to bear himself in both, because his chiefest joy was "in the Lord." This abiding joy raised him above the vicissitudes of this mortal state, and gave him an αὐτάρεκια, a Christian independence, which enabled him to act becomingly both in adversity and in prosperity. Everywhere and in all things I am instructed; literally, as R.V., in everything and in all things; as we say, "in each and all," in every condition separately and in all collectively. The R.V. translates more accurately, "have I learned the secret." The Greek μεμύημαι means properly, "I have been' initiated." It is a word adapted from the old Greek mysteries; comp. B.C.ngel, "Disciplina arcana imbutus sum, ignota mundo." St. Paul represents the advanced Christian life as a mystery, the secrets of which are taught by God. the Holy Ghost to the soul that longs to prove in its own personal experience "what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." St. Paul frequently uses the word μυστήριον, mystery, for the truths once hidden but now brought to light by the gospel. Both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. The word rendered "to be full" (χορτάζεσθαι) is strictly used of animals, and means "to be foddered;" in the New Testament and later Greek it is used also of men, without any depreciatory significance, as in Matthew 5:6, "They shall be filled (χορτασθήσονται)."
                      Last edited by footwasher; 02-18-2015, 06:56 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                        You can certainly argue that and believe that if you wish...I don't think it's so. For instance, The NAS Greek Lexicon says:

                        The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
                        Definition
                        1. prophecy
                          1. a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events
                          2. Used in the NT of the utterance of OT prophets
                            1. of the prediction of events relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions pertaining to it, the spirit of prophecy, the divine mind, to which the prophetic faculty is due
                            2. of the endowment and speech of the Christian teachers called prophets
                            3. the gifts and utterances of these prophets, esp. of the predictions of the works of which, set apart to teach the gospel, will accomplish for the kingdom of Christ




                        LINKY

                        I think it certainly can and does mean foretelling, but it also has forthtelling in it's range of meaning. See 1. a. definition
                        Marginally, yes, but I see a heavy emphasis on foretelling throughout the definition.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
                          I am guessing you are referring to Deut. 18?
                          Yes, I think that's it - though for some reason I was thinking Jeremiah.
                          I think multiple issues will come up:

                          1. Is the nature OT prophecy synonymous with NT prophecy?

                          2. Is the nature of the listener the same from the OT to the NT? (priest and people, vs. priesthood of believers)
                          More to the point, IMO, the same Spirit is acting through the prophet.
                          3. Even with the OT prophets, their 'prophecy' was not limited to explicitly 'foretelling'. The message was often exhortation for Israel to turn back to the LORD. [the key sign of the false prophet (see below) is that they would turn people away from God]
                          I do not dispute that prophets can convey messages other than foretelling.
                          4. When looking at Deut. and the nature of the prophet and discernment - foretelling was not the only issue / criteria. Rather, IMO, the bigger and more important criteria is whether the prophet caused them to turn away from the LORD. (the 'or' in Deut. 18:22 could just as easily be translated 'and') Remember, Deut. 18 would be against the backdrop of what was already said in Deut. 13:
                          Er, the "or" in Deut. 18:20 explicitly expands on the backdrop of Deut. 13.
                          The other thing to consider is what Adrift mentioned...
                          1 Corinthians 14:3
                          On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation


                          It seems to me that Paul is not defining prophecy per se, but he is stating its purpose -- and so the design is based on the purpose. If a 'prophecy' does the exact opposite of these things (causing fear, discouragement, division, etc.), you can probably be sure that it is not from God.

                          That being said, I do think the verse is clear in defining the purpose and intent of true prophecy and thus cannot be discounted when discussing the nature of prophecy and what prophecy is, is not, and what it is limited to.
                          The verse is indeed clear in defining the purpose of true prophecy. It does not, however, define prophecy. I'm not sure why you're not seeing the distinction. On the other hand, I'm feeling wretched at the moment, so I'm hoping this is somewhat coherent nonetheless.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • Regarding prophecy, Peter wrote, ". . . For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. . . . " -- 2 Peter 1:16-21.

                            Paul wrote that the value of the interpretation of the gift of tongues, ". . . I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 14:5-6. He mentions 4 things, which I understand come of two speaking gifts, prophesying and the word of knowledge. I underlined two that I understand comes of the gifts of prophecies, when tongues is followed by the interpretation of tongues.

                            The prophecy called the Revelation of Jesus Christ reveals this of prophecy, ". . . for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." -- Revelation 19:10.

                            Jesus Himself said, ". . . These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. . . ." -- Luke 24:44.

                            Now prophecy called the Revelation of Jesus Christ has this seal on it, ". . . Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand. . . . For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the tree of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book." -- Revelation 1:3; 22:18-19.

                            Now the early church prior to all the writings given to become the NT had those speaking gifts to give it its teachings, spiritual knowledge, prophesies and revelations. The interpretation being the prophecy called the Revelation of Jesus Christ was add last, and no revelations are to be added to its hearing, closing what was to become the NT.

                            Paul wrote, ". . . For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Ephesians 2:18-22.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Yes, I think that's it - though for some reason I was thinking Jeremiah.
                              Deut. is definitely the one I hear the most.

                              That being said - what is interesting is how Jeremiah contains a passage that specifically discusses prophecy that is conditional upon the response of the hearer. (Jer. 18) [a prophecy which may or may not come to pass]

                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              More to the point, IMO, the same Spirit is acting through the prophet.
                              Yes, with the distinction that we all now have access to the same Spirit. We aren't guided by a singular prophet speaking for God but by the Spirit who is God.

                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              I do not dispute that prophets can convey messages other than foretelling.
                              Yep. And from what I have studied - it seems that the primary message of the prophet is not one of foretelling (although that does occur) but one of speaking for God. Often times in the OT this is a message of guiding people back to God during their times of rebellion.

                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Er, the "or" in Deut. 18:20 explicitly expands on the backdrop of Deut. 13.
                              Not quite sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing... My point is that, yes Deut. 18:20 is placed on the backdrop of Deut. 13 - in which Deut. 13 actually has the 'sign' come to pass, while Deut. 18 does not. The point, in both is whether the 'prophet' is turning people away from God. If so - they are a false prophet.

                              My point in the 'or' is that it could just as well be translated 'and' (and specifically is called out in footnotes) - and so we can't discount that. In the case that it would have understood as an 'and' to the original audience, that would mean that presumption by itself would not be cause for death, but presumption and


                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              The verse is indeed clear in defining the purpose of true prophecy. It does not, however, define prophecy. I'm not sure why you're not seeing the distinction. On the other hand, I'm feeling wretched at the moment, so I'm hoping this is somewhat coherent nonetheless.
                              Sorry - I actually meant to affirm that there is a distinction. That being said - design is always based on purpose, right? (e.g. a chair is meant to allow us to sit, gum to chew, eye to see, etc.) So my point is that although the verse doesn't 'define' prophecy (nor is it meant to, IMO) - it does give us the basis of design. So the definition of prophecy must be consistent with its purpose. That's all I was trying to say..haha

                              Hopefully that made more sense!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
                                Yep. And from what I have studied - it seems that the primary message of the prophet is not one of foretelling (although that does occur) but one of speaking for God. Often times in the OT this is a message of guiding people back to God during their times of rebellion.
                                But that very message is often a foretelling of what will happen if the people remain unrepentant.
                                Not quite sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing... My point is that, yes Deut. 18:20 is placed on the backdrop of Deut. 13 - in which Deut. 13 actually has the 'sign' come to pass, while Deut. 18 does not. The point, in both is whether the 'prophet' is turning people away from God. If so - they are a false prophet.

                                My point in the 'or' is that it could just as well be translated 'and' (and specifically is called out in footnotes) - and so we can't discount that. In the case that it would have understood as an 'and' to the original audience, that would mean that presumption by itself would not be cause for death, but presumption and
                                I think you left off something here. In any case, I have no idea what footnote you're referring to. None of my study bibles (NASB-Ryrie, NRSV, NET) contain any mention of a possible alternative there, and none of my bibles translate it differently (including my Artscroll English Tanakh and my translation of the LXX). Further, IMO you're militating against the plain meaning of 'false prophet' - if someone prophesies falsely in the name of God, then they are literally a false prophet!
                                Sorry - I actually meant to affirm that there is a distinction. That being said - design is always based on purpose, right? (e.g. a chair is meant to allow us to sit, gum to chew, eye to see, etc.) So my point is that although the verse doesn't 'define' prophecy (nor is it meant to, IMO) - it does give us the basis of design. So the definition of prophecy must be consistent with its purpose. That's all I was trying to say..haha
                                Ok. I would say that the content of a prophecy is consistent with its purpose, but at least some aspect of it will be a foretelling.
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