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April 22nd 2005, 11:36 AM #1
Does Jesus still exist physically?
According to traditional, historic Christian faith:
1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus had a human body when he was here on Earth
3) Jesus died physically -- his body died.
4) Jesus resurrected bodily -- his human physical body was alive after being dead, and he remained alive.
5) Jesus' body ascended to heaven
6) Jesus will return with that body.
(If any of the above assumptions are incorrect, please let me know.)
Atheists sometimes use the argument that God is like an Invisible Pink Unicorn (IPU). You can claim that the IPU exists, and you can describe its attributes, but its very definition makes it impossible to falsify any claim of its existence.
Christians claim that Jesus existed physically, that he could be seen, heard and touched, In other words, claiming that he existed on earth is not an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. Furthermore, they claim that there is much evidence confirming his bodily resurrection.
So, does Jesus still exist physically? If yes, then maybe he is not like the IPU. If exists physically, where is he? Does he have a glorified body? Where did Jesus go when he ascended?
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April 22nd 2005, 01:34 PM #2
Re: Does Jesus still exist physically?
Hello, Cognos -
Here is how one witness described the post-resurrection Jesus, as he appeared several decades after the event:And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore ..."
Make of it what you will. I vote for mythological and allegorical, not physical in any sense familiar to us. A physical Jesus like this would probably have dropped the seven starts from his right hand when he placed it on John's shoulder. One also supposes the sword in his mouth would have clanged to the ground when he spoke. The outlandish appearence clues us: we don't deal with a physical creature here, but with a bundle of metaphors.Last edited by Duder; April 22nd 2005 at 01:47 PM.
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Over-the-road truck driver -
I log in when I can.
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April 22nd 2005, 01:49 PM #3
Re: Does Jesus still exist physically?
Well yeah, a bundle of metaphors as found in Revelations, which is entirely metaphor, allegory and similie.
Originally posted by Duder
But that wasn't the question. The question was does Jesus literally exist with a physical body and the answer to that is yes He does. It is quite plain in scripture that Jesus was corporeal when He resurrected and ascended."As yesterday's positive report card shows, childrens do learn when standards are high and results are measured."
George W. Bush, on the No Child Left Behind Act, Washington, D.C., Sept. 26, 2007
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April 22nd 2005, 01:53 PM #4
Re: Does Jesus still exist physically?
Well that was one of the questions. The others were:
If he exists physically, where is he?
Does he have a glorified body?
Where did Jesus go when he ascended?
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April 22nd 2005, 02:29 PM #5
Re: Does Jesus still exist physically?
1) Right hand of the Father
Originally posted by Cognos
2) Yes
3) Heaven.
Glad to help."As yesterday's positive report card shows, childrens do learn when standards are high and results are measured."
George W. Bush, on the No Child Left Behind Act, Washington, D.C., Sept. 26, 2007
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April 22nd 2005, 04:41 PM #6
Re: Does Jesus still exist physically?
1) So you're saying that he is physically at the right hand of the Father? Does the Father have a physical right hand?
2) What is a glorified body?
3) How high did Jesus go before he reached heaven?
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April 22nd 2005, 04:55 PM #7
Re: Does Jesus still exist physically?
No. The "right hand" is a metaphor for the Father's sovereign reign. Jesus' being at the Father's right hand means he exercises the Father's sovereign authority over all things.
Originally posted by Cognos
It is incorruptible and immortal among other things (see I Corinthians 15). We do not know all that a glorified body entails, but Jesus' post resurrection appearances indicate that it did not have the same sort of spatial and temporal limitations that our bodies do (e.g. Jesus appeared in the room without entering), but yet still maintains physicality (e.g. Jesus could be touched and he could eat).2) What is a glorified body?
We do not need to suppose that "Heaven" – where Jesus currently resides – is literally located "up there somewhere." It may be located somewhere outside of our space-time continuum altogether. Jesus' "assent" into heaven was a visible sign that his disciples could grasp, not an indication of actual spatial location.3) How high did Jesus go before he reached heaven?
In any event Jesus' current location is only temporary, since we believe that someday Jesus will rule and reign physically in this physical cosmos (orthodox Christianity holds that even as Jesus' body was glorified and our bodies will be glorified, the entire physical world will undergo a transformation by which it is also glorified).To be the value of a bound variable or not to be
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