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  • Here is another video pointing out Furtick's heretical preaching.



    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
      Here is another video pointing out Furtick's heretical preaching.

      Sorry, but yep, I'm going to do it again.


      -- How is the statement around 7:40 any more "heresy" than 1 John 4:17?

      I don't *like* Furtick saying that. I think it's stupid exegesis of Exodus 3. But how this guy pulling out that bit and labeling it "heresy" shows he's just a heresy hunter.

      In my previous reply to the original Furtick post, I included these:

      We are "in" Christ -- Rom 8:1-2; 2 Cor. 3:14; 5:17; etc.

      We are "in" Him -- 1 Cor. 1:5; 2 Cor. 5:21; Col. 2:11; etc.

      We are "with" him -- Rom. 6:4-8

      We are heirs of God, fellow heirs with Christ -- Rom. 8:17

      We are royalty -- Rom. 5:17; 1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:6, 5:10

      We are seated with Christ -- Eph. 2:6, 1:20

      We are partakers of the divine nature -- 2 Pet. 1:4

      Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power (Acts 10:38) and we have an anointing of the Holy One (1 John 2:20).

      Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35) and we are born of the Spirit (John 3:5-8).

      Jesus was(is) the beloved Son of God (Matt. 3:17; Mark 9:7; Luke 1:35, 3:22; etc.) and we are children of God (Rom. 8:14; Gal. 3:26; 1 John 3:1-2).

      Jesus called the Father "Abba" (Matt. 14:36) and so do we (Rom. 8:15; Gal. 4:6).

      Jesus was (uniquely) born of God (John 3:16, 18) and we are born of God (John 1:12-13), born from above (John 3:3, 7).

      Jesus calls us His brothers and sisters (Heb. 2:11).

      The Spirit was upon Jesus (Luke 4:18) and provided Him power (4:14). The Spirit and power are upon us (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8; 2:4-39).


      I wonder if Justin also considers those to be "heresy."

      Around 10:00-10:30 -- I take it this guy doesn't believe the gifts of the Spirit are operative today. I hope he isn't so foolish that he uses that as a framework to judge what constitutes "heresy."

      Funny that Justin got so bent out shape about Furtick's tight shirt in that ONE clip. In most or all of the others, Furtick is wearing big, loose clothes.

      Around the 18 minute mark -- Justin disqualifies Furtick from teaching and preaching on the basis that he allegedly does not meet the standards of 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1. But those are standards for elders / overseers. It is strictly a matter of opinion that *only* elders / overseers can teach and preach. (If he had argued more narrowly that Furtick is not qualified to be a pastor, I'd have less objection.)

      Abram and his "stuff" -- No more "coarse jesting" than Paul's remarks about circumcision in Galatians, and no more offensive than the KJV and a few others that use the expression "pisses against the wall."


      I wouldn't want to attend Furtick's church. I would not advise anyone else to attend, or to make a practice of imbibing his preaching. But I also would not recommend the kind of church Justin Peters or John MacArthur would approve. Justin likes to toss around allusions to Jude 1:12. I think it's just about as appropriate to link Justin to 2 Tim. 3:5.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Federalist.

      Nationalist Christian.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

      Justice for Matthew Perna!

      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

        I wouldn't want to attend Furtick's church. I would not advise anyone else to attend, or to make a practice of imbibing his preaching. But I also would not recommend the kind of church Justin Peters or John MacArthur would approve. Justin likes to toss around allusions to Jude 1:12. I think it's just about as appropriate to link Justin to 2 Tim. 3:5.
        From Justin Peters Ministries Statement of Faith

        III. Creation

        …in keeping with proper hermeneutics, the Bible clearly teaches that God created the world in 6 literal 24 hour days. Adam and Eve were two literal, historical people handmade by God. We completely reject the fallacious arguments of both Darwinistic macro-evolution and theistic evolution, the latter of which is a woefully misguided attempt to make the Bible fit within the parameters of predominant scientific theories. True science always supports the biblical narrative and never contradicts it.

        Strike.jpg

        VI. Salvation

        …salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone as recorded in Scripture alone for the glory of God alone. Sinners are totally depraved, meaning, that left to his own fallen nature man has no inherent ability to save himself or even to seek after God (Romans 3:10-11). Salvation, then, is instigated and completed solely by the convicting and regenerative power of His Holy Spirit (John 3:3-7; Titus 3:5) Who grants both genuine faith (Hebrews 12:2) and genuine repentance (Acts 5:31; 2 Timothy 2:23-25). He accomplishes this through the instrumentality of the Word of God (John 5:24) as it is read and preached. Though works are wholly unmeritorious for salvation (Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:8-9), when regeneration has been wrought in a person he will exhibit works, or, fruit, of that regeneration (Acts 26:20; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Ephesians 2:10).

        Strike.jpg

        XII. Spiritual Gifts

        …every person who is regenerated by God’s Holy Spirit is given gifts by the Same. The Holy Spirit distributes the gifts among each local body as He wills (1 Corinthians 12:11; 18) for the purpose of edifying the local body (Ephesians 4:12; 1 Peter 4:10). There are, broadly speaking, two kinds of gifts: 1. the miraculous (Apostolic) gifts of tongues, interpretation of tongues, divine revelation and physical healing and 2. the ministering gifts of prophecy (forth-telling, not foretelling), service, teaching, leading, exhortation, giving, mercy and helps.

        The Apostolic gifts are no longer in operation today as evidenced by both the Bible (1 Corinthians 13:8, 12; Galatians 4:13; 1 Timothy 5:23) and the vast majority of the testimony of church history. The function of the Apostolic gifts has already been fulfilled and they are, therefore, unnecessary. The Bible is completely sufficient for the individual believer and corporate body of Christ to know God’s will and obey it. The ministering gifts are still in operation today.

        Strike.jpg



        Furtick's church looks like the safer option to me.
        Last edited by tabibito; 08-23-2021, 04:15 AM.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          From Justin Peters Ministries Statement of Faith

          III. Creation

          …in keeping with proper hermeneutics, the Bible clearly teaches that God created the world in 6 literal 24 hour days. Adam and Eve were two literal, historical people handmade by God. We completely reject the fallacious arguments of both Darwinistic macro-evolution and theistic evolution, the latter of which is a woefully misguided attempt to make the Bible fit within the parameters of predominant scientific theories. True science always supports the biblical narrative and never contradicts it.

          Strike.jpg

          VI. Salvation

          …salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone as recorded in Scripture alone for the glory of God alone. Sinners are totally depraved, meaning, that left to his own fallen nature man has no inherent ability to save himself or even to seek after God (Romans 3:10-11). Salvation, then, is instigated and completed solely by the convicting and regenerative power of His Holy Spirit (John 3:3-7; Titus 3:5) Who grants both genuine faith (Hebrews 12:2) and genuine repentance (Acts 5:31; 2 Timothy 2:23-25). He accomplishes this through the instrumentality of the Word of God (John 5:24) as it is read and preached. Though works are wholly unmeritorious for salvation (Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:8-9), when regeneration has been wrought in a person he will exhibit works, or, fruit, of that regeneration (Acts 26:20; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Ephesians 2:10).

          Strike.jpg

          XII. Spiritual Gifts

          …every person who is regenerated by God’s Holy Spirit is given gifts by the Same. The Holy Spirit distributes the gifts among each local body as He wills (1 Corinthians 12:11; 18) for the purpose of edifying the local body (Ephesians 4:12; 1 Peter 4:10). There are, broadly speaking, two kinds of gifts: 1. the miraculous (Apostolic) gifts of tongues, interpretation of tongues, divine revelation and physical healing and 2. the ministering gifts of prophecy (forth-telling, not foretelling), service, teaching, leading, exhortation, giving, mercy and helps.

          The Apostolic gifts are no longer in operation today as evidenced by both the Bible (1 Corinthians 13:8, 12; Galatians 4:13; 1 Timothy 5:23) and the vast majority of the testimony of church history. The function of the Apostolic gifts has already been fulfilled and they are, therefore, unnecessary. The Bible is completely sufficient for the individual believer and corporate body of Christ to know God’s will and obey it. The ministering gifts are still in operation today.

          Strike.jpg



          Furtick's church looks like the safer option to me.
          Tentatively agree, pending comparison with the SOF from Furtick's church.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Federalist.

          Nationalist Christian.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

          Justice for Matthew Perna!

          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

            Tentatively agree, pending comparison with the SOF from Furtick's church.
            Good thought. I didn't find anything definitive under Furtick's banner, nor under Elevation Church. They do have membership with INC (International Network of Churches) which has a generic charismatic leaning statement ("declaration") of faith.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

              Sorry, but yep, I'm going to do it again.


              -- How is the statement around 7:40 any more "heresy" than 1 John 4:17?

              I don't *like* Furtick saying that. I think it's stupid exegesis of Exodus 3. But how this guy pulling out that bit and labeling it "heresy" shows he's just a heresy hunter.

              In my previous reply to the original Furtick post, I included these:

              We are "in" Christ -- Rom 8:1-2; 2 Cor. 3:14; 5:17; etc.

              We are "in" Him -- 1 Cor. 1:5; 2 Cor. 5:21; Col. 2:11; etc.

              We are "with" him -- Rom. 6:4-8

              We are heirs of God, fellow heirs with Christ -- Rom. 8:17

              We are royalty -- Rom. 5:17; 1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:6, 5:10

              We are seated with Christ -- Eph. 2:6, 1:20

              We are partakers of the divine nature -- 2 Pet. 1:4

              Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power (Acts 10:38) and we have an anointing of the Holy One (1 John 2:20).

              Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35) and we are born of the Spirit (John 3:5-8).

              Jesus was(is) the beloved Son of God (Matt. 3:17; Mark 9:7; Luke 1:35, 3:22; etc.) and we are children of God (Rom. 8:14; Gal. 3:26; 1 John 3:1-2).

              Jesus called the Father "Abba" (Matt. 14:36) and so do we (Rom. 8:15; Gal. 4:6).

              Jesus was (uniquely) born of God (John 3:16, 18) and we are born of God (John 1:12-13), born from above (John 3:3, 7).

              Jesus calls us His brothers and sisters (Heb. 2:11).

              The Spirit was upon Jesus (Luke 4:18) and provided Him power (4:14). The Spirit and power are upon us (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8; 2:4-39).


              I wonder if Justin also considers those to be "heresy."

              Around 10:00-10:30 -- I take it this guy doesn't believe the gifts of the Spirit are operative today. I hope he isn't so foolish that he uses that as a framework to judge what constitutes "heresy."

              Funny that Justin got so bent out shape about Furtick's tight shirt in that ONE clip. In most or all of the others, Furtick is wearing big, loose clothes.

              Around the 18 minute mark -- Justin disqualifies Furtick from teaching and preaching on the basis that he allegedly does not meet the standards of 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1. But those are standards for elders / overseers. It is strictly a matter of opinion that *only* elders / overseers can teach and preach. (If he had argued more narrowly that Furtick is not qualified to be a pastor, I'd have less objection.)

              Abram and his "stuff" -- No more "coarse jesting" than Paul's remarks about circumcision in Galatians, and no more offensive than the KJV and a few others that use the expression "pisses against the wall."


              I wouldn't want to attend Furtick's church. I would not advise anyone else to attend, or to make a practice of imbibing his preaching. But I also would not recommend the kind of church Justin Peters or John MacArthur would approve. Justin likes to toss around allusions to Jude 1:12. I think it's just about as appropriate to link Justin to 2 Tim. 3:5.
              I'm not going to argue with any of you in this thread. I believe you are wrong, and you don’t like what I’m posting. That’s on you, and perhaps the truth hurts a bit when it goes against what you believe. Neither Peters nor Mac Arthur nor anyone else who thinks Furtick and his ilk are false teachers need me to defend them.

              On the other hand, Furtick and his ilk seem to need defense from those who, well, defend them.
              Last edited by mossrose; 08-23-2021, 10:47 PM.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                Here is another video pointing out Furtick's heretical preaching.

                Remove the middle three letters from the guy's last name to describe what he really is. I'll only apologize if he repents.
                ~ Russell ("MelMak")

                "[Sing] and [make] melody in your heart to the Lord." -- Ephesians 5:19b

                Fight spam!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The Melody Maker View Post

                  Remove the middle three letters from the guy's last name to describe what he really is. I'll only apologize if he repents.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                    You can't blame that on mr. mossy

                    soap-mouth-boy.jpg

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      You can't blame that on mr. mossy

                      soap-mouth-boy.jpg
                      Me, neither!

                      I don't know who he is and what he did with my son!


                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                        I'm not going to argue with any of you in this thread. I believe you are wrong, and you don't like what I'm posting. That's on you, and perhaps the truth hurts a bit when it goes against what you believe.
                        I don't like what you're posting, mossy, because you're mixing dogmatic assertions with an adamant refusal to back them up. You could, perhaps take your last sentence here to heart. I was raised a cessationist - but experience has proven that to be wrong. Truth remains the truth, regardless of whether or not you like it when you hear it.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
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                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          I don't like what you're posting, mossy, because you're mixing dogmatic assertions with an adamant refusal to back them up. You could, perhaps take your last sentence here to heart. I was raised a cessationist - but experience has proven that to be wrong. Truth remains the truth, regardless of whether or not you like it when you hear it.
                          I don't like what you and NR are posting either. The videos speak for themselves.

                          Indeed, truth DOES remain the truth. And the truth is that these people are false teachers who fleece their followers and undermine their faith with empty promises of wealth and health


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                            On the other hand, Furtick and his old seem to need Defense from those who, well, defend them.
                            I don't see a lot of Furtick defending here.

                            There is simply an acknowledgement that the person complaining about the mote in Furtick's eye has a pole in his own.

                            That doesn't mean Furtick's preaching isn't cause for concern - which is what NorrinRadd stated.

                            NorrinRadd said "I wouldn't want to attend Furtick's church. I would not advise anyone else to attend, or to make a practice of imbibing his preaching. But I also would not recommend the kind of church Justin Peters or John MacArthur would approve. Justin likes to toss around allusions to Jude 1:12. I think it's just about as appropriate to link Justin to 2 Tim. 3:5"
                            "I wouldn't recommend Furtick's church to anyone," is by no means a defence of the man.

                            And I for one would not have considered that there was cause to question Peters' assessment if it hadn't been for all his nitpicking. Checking Peters' credentials shows that his criticisms are at best a matter of one false preacher slinging mud at another.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 08-23-2021, 10:27 PM.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • I've been metaphorically shooting in both directions for at least 25 years.

                              For the bottom line, skip past the box. For the details, don't.

                              From about 1984 to 1994 or 1995 (about age 24 to 34 or 35 on earth, about age 4 to 14 or 15 "in the Lord"), I attended a Full Gospel / Pentecostal church with Word of Faith leanings. The pulpit preaching was generally not "hardcore" WoF, but the book table and tape library were stocked with materials from Rhema and Harrison House. For the first few months of my attendance, before we moved into a "real" church building, we rented meeting space in a local storage facility belonging to R.W. Schambach. About once a year, David Kirkwood (his name back then), a pastor from down near Pittsburgh, visited and taught at a few services. He was my favorite guest-preacher. We also had occasional visits from John Nuzzo, long before he became pastor of a church. Two of our favorite recurring guests were Bishop Silas Owiti and singer/pianist/evangelist Roger Blair. It is literally amazing to me that I can find NO info online about the latter; he was an itinerant singer, pianist, and evangelist most notable for his "laughing in the Spirit" ministry several years before that stuff exploded into international fame in Toronto and Florida. (Well, not "NO" info. I did find this post that I myself wrote on another forum about 14 years ago.)

                              I read and re-read scores of books by Faith teachers, and listened to many hours of teaching tapes. I also read critical books by Bruce Barron, Dan McConnell, Gordon Fee, B.J. Oropeza, and Hank Hanegraaff. (I never got around to reading the books by Dave Hunt and John MacArthur.) I also read (poorly-attempted) rebuttals by Reid, et al (Seduction?? A Biblical Response) and Bruno (Christianity in Power). And I consumed a few books and tapes by Pat Robertson and Malcolm Smith, and a couple by Vineyard-affiliated authors James White (When the Spirit Comes with Power) and Ken Blue (Authority to Heal).

                              From fairly early on, I had minor issues with WoF interpretations of a few passages of Scripture, in some cases because the WoF interpretation depended on the KJV and I used the NASB or occasionally NIV. I was young and assumed they generally knew their stuff, so I filed those away. Around the early '90s, things transpired that made me aware that a couple of the top WoF luminaries had spoken blatant falsehoods "by the Spirit." That motivated me to carefully scrutinize WoF teachings and sayings, and interpretations of many passages of Scripture over the next few years. At the same time I was doing that, my church was rapidly embracing the "Toronto Blessing." We had always accepted instances of "holy laughter" or "laughing in the Spirit" and the occasional getting "drunk in the Spirit"; but the church was quickly reaching the point where, if any service did not feature several people getting the giggles or "falling under the power" (getting "slain in the Spirit"), people acted like God decided to stay home and skip the meeting. They actually sent people to Toronto to bring back some of the "anointing." That, even more than the WoF issues, prompted me to leave.

                              For the next several years, I was trigger-happy in denouncing WoF. I'm sure I used the term, "false prophets," but I meant it in the sense of people saying demonstrably false things, supposedly "by the Spirit." I've since learned that theologians and apologists usually use the term to refer to proclaiming or leading people to a false Christ. I don't know whether I ever used the words "heresy" or "heretic" or "heretical." If I did, I believe I mostly stopped after reading Rob Bowman's The Word-Faith Controversy. It was careful, dispassionate, and fair, and helped me moderate my attitude and approach.


                              I'm critical of the attitudes, emphases, and stupid exegesis of Word-Faith proponents.

                              But I'm also critical of cessationism-advocates, and of those quick to apply the "heresy / heretic" label.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Federalist.

                              Nationalist Christian.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                              Justice for Matthew Perna!

                              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                                I've been metaphorically shooting in both directions for at least 25 years.

                                For the bottom line, skip past the box. For the details, don't.

                                From about 1984 to 1994 or 1995 (about age 24 to 34 or 35 on earth, about age 4 to 14 or 15 "in the Lord"), I attended a Full Gospel / Pentecostal church with Word of Faith leanings. The pulpit preaching was generally not "hardcore" WoF, but the book table and tape library were stocked with materials from Rhema and Harrison House. For the first few months of my attendance, before we moved into a "real" church building, we rented meeting space in a local storage facility belonging to R.W. Schambach. About once a year, David Kirkwood (his name back then), a pastor from down near Pittsburgh, visited and taught at a few services. He was my favorite guest-preacher. We also had occasional visits from John Nuzzo, long before he became pastor of a church. Two of our favorite recurring guests were Bishop Silas Owiti and singer/pianist/evangelist Roger Blair. It is literally amazing to me that I can find NO info online about the latter; he was an itinerant singer, pianist, and evangelist most notable for his "laughing in the Spirit" ministry several years before that stuff exploded into international fame in Toronto and Florida. (Well, not "NO" info. I did find this post that I myself wrote on another forum about 14 years ago.)

                                I read and re-read scores of books by Faith teachers, and listened to many hours of teaching tapes. I also read critical books by Bruce Barron, Dan McConnell, Gordon Fee, B.J. Oropeza, and Hank Hanegraaff. (I never got around to reading the books by Dave Hunt and John MacArthur.) I also read (poorly-attempted) rebuttals by Reid, et al (Seduction?? A Biblical Response) and Bruno (Christianity in Power). And I consumed a few books and tapes by Pat Robertson and Malcolm Smith, and a couple by Vineyard-affiliated authors James White (When the Spirit Comes with Power) and Ken Blue (Authority to Heal).

                                From fairly early on, I had minor issues with WoF interpretations of a few passages of Scripture, in some cases because the WoF interpretation depended on the KJV and I used the NASB or occasionally NIV. I was young and assumed they generally knew their stuff, so I filed those away. Around the early '90s, things transpired that made me aware that a couple of the top WoF luminaries had spoken blatant falsehoods "by the Spirit." That motivated me to carefully scrutinize WoF teachings and sayings, and interpretations of many passages of Scripture over the next few years. At the same time I was doing that, my church was rapidly embracing the "Toronto Blessing." We had always accepted instances of "holy laughter" or "laughing in the Spirit" and the occasional getting "drunk in the Spirit"; but the church was quickly reaching the point where, if any service did not feature several people getting the giggles or "falling under the power" (getting "slain in the Spirit"), people acted like God decided to stay home and skip the meeting. They actually sent people to Toronto to bring back some of the "anointing." That, even more than the WoF issues, prompted me to leave.

                                For the next several years, I was trigger-happy in denouncing WoF. I'm sure I used the term, "false prophets," but I meant it in the sense of people saying demonstrably false things, supposedly "by the Spirit." I've since learned that theologians and apologists usually use the term to refer to proclaiming or leading people to a false Christ. I don't know whether I ever used the words "heresy" or "heretic" or "heretical." If I did, I believe I mostly stopped after reading Rob Bowman's The Word-Faith Controversy. It was careful, dispassionate, and fair, and helped me moderate my attitude and approach.


                                I'm critical of the attitudes, emphases, and stupid exegesis of Word-Faith proponents.

                                But I'm also critical of cessationism-advocates, and of those quick to apply the "heresy / heretic" label.
                                My experiences are similar to yours. I used to really like Kenneth Copeland in the early days. My Baptism in the Holy Spirit was and still is a touchstone spiritual experience that has kept me from departing the faith on more than one occasion. I love reading and reasoning from the Bible but, I wouldn't have stayed in the faith, much less given apologetics a second thought were it not for that experience. I think that's what angers me most about these WOF charlatans, as I know there are real miracles, there is a touch by the Holy Spirit that empowers us and assures us that God is real and loves us. These charlatans have stolen it. Creating false flag operations,, and ultimately dousing the hope of those that are fooled into following them.. I salute those that can believe without those miracles, I just don't think I would have ever grown into the faith I have without it.
                                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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