Revelation 1:19 and Revelation 4:1- Preterist Only

[A Cup of No]

In a discussion with my dean concerning eschatology, he mentioned revelation 1:19 and revelation 4:1 in his defense of the "seven churches- seven sections of church age" belief. His main questions were:

1. Why did Christ choose to address those seven specific churches in that specific order ( the order is important because he is assuming they are fulfilled throughout history and thinks they are not coincidence)?

2. What is the "this" in 4:1? "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."

I'd also like to ask about revelation 1:19. What are the "things which you have seen?" ( I thought they were the vision of Christ telling him to all of this down) What are the things that "are?" (I thought it was the churches, but that would lead to a problem with the next question) What are the things which must take place "after this?" I think that the "this" in 1:19 and the "this" in 4:1 are the same thing, but would that make the "church age" the "this?" I don't see any indication in the text to take this as representing these stages, but those are just a few questions.

I don't think the "seven churches-seven stages of church age" argument is legitimate, but any answers would be greatly appreciated. If these questions have already been asked, a link to another thread would be fine.

[Tim C.]

I don't think the "seven churches-seven stages of church age" argument is legitimate

Alot of non-preterists also do not believe in the "seven stages of the church age" interpretation.

-Tim

[A Cup of No]

I'm aware of that. Thanks though.

[wfaber]

Geographically, the sequence follows a natural route without backtracking or zigzagging. You can see how the route swings an arc throughout Asia Minor.

Why seven churches? Maybe for the symbolism, the idea of completion, like the seven lamps, plagues, trumpets, etc. There were more than seven in the area. He omits Colossae, Mitylene, Troas,and Miletus. I would suggest that Jesus selected seven churches which were typical of all churches.

"After this": Most translations correctly translate "meta tauta" in the plural, "after these things." Probably means after Jesus gave John the messages to the churches. Why did Jesus say "come up here"? Because the next vision was that of the throne of God which is in heaven.

I agree that to make the letters to the seven churches parallel seven stages in church history is stretching the Scriptures quite a bit. To begin, the first church is a hard-working church which lost its first love, followed by a persecuted church. Definitely the church had gone through several persecutions from around AD 95-300. But I don't see the church before that, which is the apostolic age, having left its first love.

And the church in the past few centuries is so diverse, with different denominations and independent churches, that all seven churches seem to apply. There are plenty of dead churches, persecuted churches, lukewarm churches, zealous churches.

[Tim C.]

Geographically, the sequence follows a natural route without backtracking or zigzagging. You can see how the route swings an arc throughout Asia Minor.

Why seven churches? Maybe for the symbolism, the idea of completion, like the seven lamps, plagues, trumpets, etc. There were more than seven in the area. He omits Colossae, Mitylene, Troas,and Miletus.

Interesting comments. However, I believe Colossae was destroyed by an earthquake (around 60 AD?), so we shouldn't expect to see that church addressed.

-Tim

[Faramir]

Interesting comments. However, I believe Colossae was destroyed by an earthquake (around 60 AD?), so we shouldn't expect to see that church addressed.

-Tim

Hey Tim when did you become a preterist. After all the Title does say preterist only.

[Taran Wanderer]

Greg Beale has a long discussion of 1:19 on pp. 152-170 of his Revelation commentary. But I don't know what he says because I haven't read it yet.

[Hitch]

Hey Tim when did you become a preterist. After all the Title does say preterist only.

Groundhog Day ,,,again?