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Bowe Bergdahl to be charged with desertion

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  • #31
    Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
    Are you thinking that leaving the military is always considered equivalent to desertion? If so, I don't think that's correct. I've heard of people getting out of the military before their contract is up. Not sure what kind of penalty they incur...but I don't think they call that desertion.
    Depends on a wide range of factors. If they took a bonus (for example) the might have to pay some of that back. It really depends upon the reasons they were separated.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    • #32
      Originally posted by myth View Post
      I've discussed this with military friends before. 'Desertion' is much more specific than just quitting the military before your contract is over. From my understanding, there are soldiers in some branches that go AWOL indefinitely all the time while stateside. Most branches will just take some administrative action after a certain period of time and voila, the person is no longer in the military. A lot of times they don't even bother prosecuting. The Marine Corps takes a different stance, though....from what I hear. But just quitting doesn't equal the death penalty, it requires more specific circumstances.
      It also depends on the reasons. When I was in tech school, they caught a guy that left tech school and never made it to his first base. He was walking around, in orange, with handcuffs on his ankles and arms. There's way out of the military, without taking that route. However; I haven't heard the death penalty being enacted for desertion, for many decades now (WWII, as I recall, was the last time the death penalty was enacted for desertion). Most of them have to do with jail time and things of that nature.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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      • #33
        Originally posted by myth View Post
        I'm dumbfounded at the White House's logic on this. He left his unit voluntarily, so we're going to free to terrorists to get a deserter back? Sounds rather like we freed terrorists to kidnap a deserter. Epic fail.
        As I recall at the time of the exchange, the White House wanted some good news with a military angle. I don't remember what the bad news at the moment was. So a hasty plan without proper vetting was done and now its biting back.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
          As I recall at the time of the exchange, the White House wanted some good news with a military angle. I don't remember what the bad news at the moment was. So a hasty plan without proper vetting was done and now its biting back.
          I think the bad news at the time was the rise of ISIS.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
            As I recall at the time of the exchange, the White House wanted some good news with a military angle. I don't remember what the bad news at the moment was. So a hasty plan without proper vetting was done and now its biting back.
            Even on MSNBC they were speculating that the White House did it for the positive publicity citing the Rose Garden announcement with his family present.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #36



              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                They're just a bunch of terrorist like guys who terrorist like things in terrorist like ways but that doesn't make them terrorists. Understand now?

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  They're just a bunch of terrorist like guys who terrorist like things in terrorist like ways but that doesn't make them terrorists. Understand now?
                  We voted that they were not terrorists before we voted that they weren't.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • #39
                    Even CNN is concerned that the Bergdahl swap may have serious problems.

                    Source: CNN

                    Washington (CNN)The U.S. military and intelligence community now suspect that one of the five Taliban detainees released from Guantanamo Bay in return for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in May of last year has attempted to return to militant activity from his current location in Qatar, CNN has learned exclusively.

                    The development has led to an ongoing debate inside the administration about whether there is a new threat from this man, and potentially the other four.

                    This is the first known suggestion that any of the detainees involved in the exchange may be trying to engage again in militant activity. It comes at a politically sensitive time as the administration has quickened the pace of prisoner release in an effort to encourage the closure of the Guantanamo, and the Army must decide in the coming weeks whether and how to punish Bergdahl for leaving his post.

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      If you ENLIST, it's not "involuntary". And ENLISTING is entering into a CONTRACT of one's own free will. Do you not believe we should honor contracts we enter into?
                      For discussion of that see my posts #18 and #24 (the latter is even the one you replied to).

                      Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      Besides, abounding your post, in an area of the world known to capture and kill Americans, doesn't seem to be the best idea there is.
                      Desertion may be imprudent and may be immoral, but that's not what I was talking about. Neither imprudent nor immoral imply "should be illegal".

                      There's also other ways out of the military too, including medical discharges due to 'mental health' or something else like that.
                      I've heard stories about people who during their service came to the conclusion that what they military was doing was unjust, and have tried every legal avenue to get out, without success.
                      (The law does recognize people who develop conscientious objection during service. But the U.S. only provides such an exception for total pacifists, and not for those who object to particular wars/conflicts as being unjust. And even then I've heard it's very hard to get out on such grounds.)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Joel View Post
                        Desertion may be imprudent and may be immoral, but that's not what I was talking about. Neither imprudent nor immoral imply "should be illegal".
                        Than don't sign up for it, if you can't handle that.

                        I've heard stories about people who during their service came to the conclusion that what they military was doing was unjust, and have tried every legal avenue to get out, without success.
                        And they are wrong. The rules are made up front and clear as can be, before you ever sign on that dotted line. You are even given chances to get out, during your training period, if you so desire. The military has even made it simple to get out and has even given voluntary ways out, in times that it doesn't need as many people. If you can't stand those possibilities, then don't apply. Those are the rules for applying.

                        (The law does recognize people who develop conscientious objection during service. But the U.S. only provides such an exception for total pacifists, and not for those who object to particular wars/conflicts as being unjust. And even then I've heard it's very hard to get out on such grounds.)
                        Would you want people to take advantage of the things you offer and not wanting to return what you have given them? The military operates tech schools all over the US and spends a lot of money to train new recruits. They need something back on this investment, so they do things that are in their best interest. Would you spend lots of money to train somebody, just to have them take off on you and leave you footing the bill? I wouldn't, so that is why some avenues are hard to use because they want returns on the time they took to train you.
                        Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 01-29-2015, 06:45 PM.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I recalled and as LPOT said, they can get out under specific conditions. I can't confirm if conscientious objectors can ALWAYS get out of their contracts...if you happen to be a cook, I imagine they may not be in such a hurry to accommodate your request as they would an infantryman or such.




                          ETA: LPOT gave a better answer.
                          Last edited by DesertBerean; 01-29-2015, 06:45 PM.
                          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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                          • #43
                            ....meh.... I think I have that backwards...they might not move so quickly to let an infantryman go...
                            Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                              ....meh.... I think i have that backwards...they might not move so quickly to let an infantryman go...
                              It depends on military requirements and what is currently going on. Since the military has been going though draw downs, it is easier to get out at this very moment. In the middle of a war though... well... good luck with that. We once had a retired Chief Master Sgt of the AF come and talk to us. He was in during the 50's-70's. His enlistment was up, right around the time the Korean War was going on. He went to the office and asked about his options. They said, "You can reenlist or we'll reenlist you." That doesn't happen nearly as often anymore, but military needs has a lot to do with how hard or easy it is to get out.
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                                Than don't sign up for it, if you can't handle that.
                                ...
                                Would you want people to take advantage of the things you offer and not wanting to return what you have given them? The military operates tech schools all over the US and spends a lot of money to train new recruits. They need something back on this investment, so they do things that are in their best interest. Would you spend lots of money to train somebody, just to have them take off on you and leave you footing the bill? I wouldn't, so that is why some avenues are hard to use because they want returns on the time they took to train you.
                                I addressed these points in posts #18 and #24.

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