Originally posted by Steven
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
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Question for church-goin Christians...
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Looking at what the earliest Christians practiced: There is no mention of church buildings in the Didache (because they probably could not practically exist before the Roman Empire officially tolerated Christianity); just talk of Christians meeting together. However, they met together on a regular basis.
http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html (chapter 14)"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Bill the Cat - there's certainly some like comparisons between modern Christendom and Judaism--regarding congregational traditions--but not all traditions are good... or Biblical.
Regarding "rolling down the aisle", it's true I left a few things out of my broad-brushing... for how could we forget square-dancing with rattlesnakes, laughing, slain the spirit, drunk in the spirit, roaring, monstrances, thuribles, the Christian Faith MasterCard, WWJD bracelets, Ostene self-help best-sellers, feel-the-wamrth Jesus icons that you can plug in (spirit not included), name it and claim it and the Left Behind movies. I could mention Harold Camping and plethora date-setting but, I fear that would be flogging a dead horse at this point... no pun intended.
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Originally posted by Steven View PostBill the Cat - there's certainly some like comparisons between modern Christendom and Judaism--regarding congregational traditions--but not all traditions are good... or Biblical.
Regarding "rolling down the aisle", it's true I left a few things out of my broad-brushing... for how could we forget square-dancing with rattlesnakes, laughing, slain the spirit, drunk in the spirit, roaring, monstrances, thuribles, the Christian Faith MasterCard, WWJD bracelets, Ostene self-help best-sellers, feel-the-wamrth Jesus icons that you can plug in (spirit not included), name it and claim it and the Left Behind movies. I could mention Harold Camping and plethora date-setting but, I fear that would be flogging a dead horse at this point... no pun intended."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostLet me ask a different question; why would a Christian not want to be in fellowship with other Christians (even if this takes a different form than traditional church services?)
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."
I always found that last part interesting: "and so much more that more As you see The Day approaching," as if the author (my money's on Paul) is indicating that there might one day be a time when believers would no longer assemble themselves together in Christ.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostWith all due respect; this seems like a strawman of the worst excesses. My church isn't involved with any of these. Snake handling is non existent outside of a few churches in Appalachia.
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Originally posted by Steven View PostCow Poke, don't feel left out.
I did quantify my audience in the original post with the words "modern Christendom." :-)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI was referring to your reference to "protestants". Not all "protestants" are Christians, and not all Christians are "protestants".
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Steven, I'm a bit confused. You seem to agree with most of what was said here. So...why'd you even start this thread?"If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostLooking at what the earliest Christians practiced: There is no mention of church buildings in the Didache (because they probably could not practically exist before the Roman Empire officially tolerated Christianity); just talk of Christians meeting together. However, they met together on a regular basis.
http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html (chapter 14)
In this thread, of course, we are discussing the body of believers. It's probably somewhere between no good reason and a very few good reasons for a believer to NOT be in fellowship. The norm for a believer should be to be in regular fellowship with a body of believers."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Steven View PostJedidiah - Ah the great Paul of Hebrews debate, but moving from that one... thank you for addressing the post.
It seems to me that there's a large number of protestants who feel very strongly about the importance of church attendance, almost using it as a form of 'absolution' and the protestant church seems willing to play on this guilt for the sake of revenue. And don't get me started on the Catholic viewpoint on this issue... lol"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Steven View PostKingsGambit, I agree; we should not alienate ourselves from meeting with believers on a regular basis.
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."
I always found that last part interesting: "and so much more that more As you see The Day approaching," as if the author (my money's on Paul) is indicating that there might one day be a time when believers would no longer assemble themselves together in Christ.
We should also see why the people assembled together: 1 Cor 10:16, Acts 20:7; Acts 2:46 - the breaking of bread, or the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11:17-34).
There is quite naturally little instruction on how to meet in the NT; none of the books therein are obvious vehicles transmitting that, and it appears to have merely been an adaptation of the synagogue service. The liturgy was only written down in an attempt to standardize the language as orthodox.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI suspect in Protestant circles, emphasis on attendance is more a sign of legalism especially if tithing is added in to the mix. (For the record after much study I have come to the position that the Christian is not under the tithe.)The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWe ought to take a look at how "the Day approaching" is described for clues - namely, tribulation and persecution. People were not meeting out of fear. In the early church, there even arose a canon law that decreed that anyone who was otherwise able to attend missed three weeks in a row would be excommunicated.
We should also see why the people assembled together: 1 Cor 10:16, Acts 20:7; Acts 2:46 - the breaking of bread, or the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11:17-34).
There is quite naturally little instruction on how to meet in the NT; none of the books therein are obvious vehicles transmitting that, and it appears to have merely been an adaptation of the synagogue service. The liturgy was only written down in an attempt to standardize the language as orthodox.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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