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In the Rec Room we share jokes, interesting stories, and speculate about trout's manties. Serve up some Spam in many different flavors and sizes, and just take some time off from study and have fun.

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Archery Like A Boss

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  • #16
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Hey Cath: Turns out there's an archery range just a few miles up the road from us operated by the county. Maybe they have classes or programs?
    Learn on a recurve. You can easily translate to a compound but I find it difficult to do the reverse.

    Compounds are for hunting and for sissies...
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
      I've been shooting a bow since I was 12. One thing I can tell you about Lars bow is that it's a relatively light pull weight bow. That lets you shoot it fast and accurately. But it doesn't penetrate as well. Also the shot where he turns and shoots the other arrow out of the air, that's only possible because of the relatively slow speed of said arrow. My guess is that arrow is traveling around 120 to 140 ft/sec. Sounds fast but my modern compound that I hunt with, shoots over 300 ft/sec. I would like to see him shoot that one out of the air...
      Apparently well enough to repeatedly penetrate chainmail as shown in the video. As for plate, I saw something on TV awhile back that showed that even long bows could only penetrate it at extremely close range and current theory is that knights in full plate were essentially beaten to death by wave after wave of arrows hammering them.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Apparently well enough to repeatedly penetrate chainmail as shown in the video. As for plate, I saw something on TV awhile back that showed that even long bows could only penetrate it at extremely close range and current theory is that knights in full plate were essentially beaten to death by wave after wave of arrows hammering them.
        Um, if the chain in the video is SCA type, this means very little. The really good stuff - and what people would have actually worn when possible - is riveted. Getting through unriveted, aluminum wire isn't much of an accomplishment. I can do it with a 50lb bow and a rabbit blunt.

        Longbows should do better at long range - they aren't usually high lb pulls (I suppose they can be). Penetrating plate depends on several factors - and using modern steel negates several. Still, it wasn't supposed to be easy - that was the point of wearing a tin can in the first place.
        Last edited by Teallaura; 02-02-2015, 09:55 PM.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
          I'm not sure a modern compound is really a fair comparison, especially when he's attempting some sort of historical accuracy.
          True! He is very accurate. He seems to get less accurate (to be expected) the more he rushes.
          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Conversely, I couldn't shoot one out of the air like that even if it had just come off of a 5lb bow - it's still a pretty neat trick.
            Yes it is. However, in looking at it again, he does a couple of things that make it even easier than I first thought. The shooter is using a light weight bow, doesn't draw it all the way, and is using flu-flu arrows. Flu-flu arrows (for those who don't know) are arrows with large feathers. they are used to hunt birds! So, they slow down very quickly so that they don't get lost easily in case of a missed bird.

            I prefer recurves and longbows. Longbows are fun!
            Grew up shooting a recurve but as I got older, my shoulder started bothering me more...also, switched to a compound to be able to hold it longer for hunting. Deer have this nasty habit of looking right at you when you move to draw... If they are looking at you when you shoot, their reflexes are so fast they can duck and dodge arrows. I had a deer whirl out of the way of an arrow shot from my 55 lb draw recurve at 15 yards. That bow would shoot an arrow at about 190 ft/sec. One broadhead blade scratched his shoulder. He lived and was shot during gun season by my buddy. I decided then to go to the higher speed bows...


            FYI: I'd guess his bow at 25 - 30 lb. Certainly not higher.
            I agree, those do not shoot very fast.
            Last edited by Littlejoe; 02-02-2015, 11:34 PM.
            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Apparently well enough to repeatedly penetrate chainmail as shown in the video. As for plate, I saw something on TV awhile back that showed that even long bows could only penetrate it at extremely close range and current theory is that knights in full plate were essentially beaten to death by wave after wave of arrows hammering them.
              Penetration power is a simple function of speed + weight - arrow drag (shaft size and it's smoothness) Penetration will not, cannot increase down range, simple physics just prohibit it increasing penetration as the arrow slows down... It might be plausible that it could increase in speed if shot in the exact correct arc so that it starts back down hill at the peak of it's speed, then gathers speed due to gravity...but you will have to convince me of that. Like I said, I've been shooting for 40+ years, and I can tell you that penetration on a 70 yd target is always less than the 10 yd targets. The chain mail he's shooting (as Teal pointed out) can't be "regulation" mail. Aluminum replica most likely. The foam target he shoots from close range? My 55 ' recurve would have shot clean through 2 of those
              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                Penetration power is a simple function of speed + weight - arrow drag (shaft size and it's smoothness) Penetration will not, cannot increase down range, simple physics just prohibit it increasing penetration as the arrow slows down... It might be plausible that it could increase in speed if shot in the exact correct arc so that it starts back down hill at the peak of it's speed, then gathers speed due to gravity...but you will have to convince me of that. Like I said, I've been shooting for 40+ years, and I can tell you that penetration on a 70 yd target is always less than the 10 yd targets. The chain mail he's shooting (as Teal pointed out) can't be "regulation" mail. Aluminum replica most likely. The foam target he shoots from close range? My 55 ' recurve would have shot clean through 2 of those
                I'm trying to figure out how you thought I said an arrow would somehow gain speed the further it traveled

                And historically speaking chain mail has always had difficulty with arrows even from short bows at medium distance so I doubt that he had to "cheat" by using aluminum.
                Last edited by rogue06; 02-03-2015, 06:44 AM.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  I'm trying to figure out how you thought I said an arrow would somehow gain speed the further it traveled
                  I don't know why but I kept reading extremely long range not close range...must have been too tired to be posting... Sorry about that! My mistake!

                  And historically speaking chain mail has always had difficulty with arrows even from short bows at medium distance so I doubt that he had to "cheat" by using aluminum.
                  He's using a very underpowered bow. And if you watch, when he is firing fast, he isn't drawing it back as far. Draw length is directly related to arrow speed and hence the kinetic energy imparted into the arrow. So, it just seems improbable that it would penetrate normal chain mail, but I guess not impossible...
                  "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                  "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    An underpowered bow (25 - 30 lb my estimate) is not gonna penetrate riveted steel mail unless it gets lucky and hits a bad link. Mail is really for swords, not arrows and yeah, a sky full of the things is gonna kill a group of guys in chain only - unless the archers are only using really broad tips which is the opposite of what they actually did.

                    But a modern broadhead or even a practice tip won't penetrate steel riveted mail (unless it's really wide). A blunt will go through the unriveted aluminum stuff even if it's really small. The riveted stuff can't be torn but the unriveted can be.

                    I don't think he cheated - he just used what was readily available. The stunt can be done for real with a powerful enough bow and the right tips so it's not like he was faking - it's just not as impressive as doing it for real would be.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      An underpowered bow (25 - 30 lb my estimate) is not gonna penetrate riveted steel mail unless it gets lucky and hits a bad link. Mail is really for swords, not arrows and yeah, a sky full of the things is gonna kill a group of guys in chain only - unless the archers are only using really broad tips which is the opposite of what they actually did.

                      But a modern broadhead or even a practice tip won't penetrate steel riveted mail (unless it's really wide). A blunt will go through the unriveted aluminum stuff even if it's really small. The riveted stuff can't be torn but the unriveted can be.

                      I don't think he cheated - he just used what was readily available. The stunt can be done for real with a powerful enough bow and the right tips so it's not like he was faking - it's just not as impressive as doing it for real would be.
                      Historically speaking the French knights at Agincourt during the Hundred Years War discovered that even in the heavy plate armor of the Fifteenth Century a sky full of arrows was bad news.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Historically speaking the French knights at Agincourt during the Hundred Years War discovered that even in the heavy plate armor of the Fifteenth Century a sky full of arrows was bad news.
                        Sure - but historically speaking, the English didn't use underpowered bows...
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Sure - but historically speaking, the English didn't use underpowered bows...
                          And the French weren't just covered in chain mail which stinks at stopping arrows.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            And the French weren't just covered in chain mail which stinks at stopping arrows.
                            Nor were the British using broad heads or blunts, neither of which would do crap against plate.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Nor were the British using broad heads or blunts, neither of which would do crap against plate.
                              Getting back to the point that modern tests show that long bows rarely penetrated plate except at extremely close range. Most kills were due to "lucky hits" penetrating cracks, seams or through the visor. In fact there are scores of notable knights and royals being killed in the last manner. Many now theorize that most deaths were the result of the impact of wave after wave of arrows striking them essentially beating them to death. Modern scholars have long underestimated the value of the gambeson or padded jacket often worn under the armor.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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