Two bloods.

[Marta]

https://www.religiousforums.com/thre...bloods.173849/

and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail Isaiah 55 v. 10-11)

If...this was based off of a "normal" pregnancy - conception, then the laws would follow! However, since "Mary" was not married at the time and since she submitted to God's will - then the birth of Christ would be considered much like creation - focusing on John 1. Reading from Genesis "And God blessed the seventh day and He hallowed it, for thereon He abstained from all His work that God created to do.." The Shabbat! As written, "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath," Matthew 12:8

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.


How could the laws (Niddah) apply? Especially when discussing the process of a pregnancy and a natural birth verses divine? When God created and sent us his son, Jesus?

Sources:

Reflections on Hilkhot Niddah

Female Purity (Niddah)

Chapter 12 of Leviticus

[37818]

John 1:14,
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mankind's sinful nature is do to disobedience causing the finite man to obtain God's knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22). God being infinite good, but man being a finite good creation, was corrupted by the knowledge of evil.

Now Jesus being human through his mother inherited that "knowledge of good and evil." But that knowledge was always part of His divine nature (Genesis 3:22, John 1:3, 10, 14, 18).

So it was:

Hebrews 4:15,
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

[Marta]

John 1:14,
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mankind's sinful nature is do to disobedience causing the finite man to obtain God's knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22). God being infinite good, but man being a finite good creation, was corrupted by the knowledge of evil.

Now Jesus being human through his mother inherited that "knowledge of good and evil." But that knowledge was always part of His divine nature (Genesis 3:22, John 1:3, 10, 14, 18).

So it was:

Hebrews 4:15,
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

We would have to go to the law - Torah. Apostle Paul stated that the law was a way to recognize sin:

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." Romans 7:7

And I have come into the world for this: that I might testify to the truth. posekso that they may hear and learn and fear the LordLuke 13Glatians3:19)perhaps sometimes in anger as sometimes he was ( we could look to him with hope - even when we sin. The law, Torah, was handed to man from heaven (Romans 10:5-13)and given to us to choose life but just like the garden, as the Apostle Paul said - sin entered into the law, the same way.

The reasoning's for knowing good from evil - and the only one who would know either one would be God, who is our judge. How could the serpent give such a speech to Eve when God knows the inner most thoughts of man and who is our judge? How could we determine what is truly in someone heart and how (when we have difficulties ourselves) know how to interpret a law that came directly from heaven. Who is the best judge in character?

[Faber]

Makes no sense to me. Sin is an act of the will, not a DNA factor. Did Adam's DNA become mutated when he sinned?

[Marta]

Makes no sense to me. Sin is an act of the will, not a DNA factor. Did Adam's DNA become mutated when he sinned?

but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind

[37818]

Makes no sense to me. Sin is an act of the will, not a DNA factor. Did Adam's DNA become mutated when he sinned?

How do you understand mankind having a sinful nature on account of Adam's disobedience (Romans 5:12-17)?

[Faber]

How do you understand mankind having a sinful nature on account of Adam's disobedience (Romans 5:12-17)?

I have issues with the doctrine of sinful nature as I have seen it taught, especially within the Holiness/Wesleyan scholars. The NIV usually translates the
greek word σὰρξ as sinful nature, suggesting in inward motivation toward sin (Except when used of Jesus). The word means "flesh", our point of contact . It's the external influence that prompts us toward sin, just as it did with Adam and Eve.

It's like that question, do we sin because we're sinners or are we sinners because we sin? I suggest the latter.

Jesus was 100% human. Why would we have a sinful nature and He didn't? He was tempted (in all points just as we are, yet without sin) by Satan, who appealed to His σὰρξ.

[hansgeorg]

Mary is not sinless since sin infects every cell of every body (save one: the seed of the woman after meiotic cleansing). The female seed throws off half of it's chromosomes in the process that makes the seed of the woman the only cell in the human body that has no sin. The male seed doesn't throw off half of its chromosomes.

Both male and female seed have only 23 chromosomes as opposed to 2*23.

So, for your argument to make sense, you need not just an ovulum without sin, but that ovulum in a female body without sin.

That is exactly what Catholics and Orthodox say the Blessed Virgin's body was (Catholics : from moment of conception; Orthodox : either from moment of conception or some later moment).

[hansgeorg]

Jesus was 100% human. Why would we have a sinful nature and He didn't? He was tempted (in all points just as we are, yet without sin) by Satan, who appealed to His σὰρξ.

But while His Flesh had complaisance with the things offered, it did not rebel against His Will and push it against obedience to God.

Our flesh not only has complaisance with things offered by sin, but also with sin.

[hansgeorg]

It's like that question, do we sin because we're sinners or are we sinners because we sin? I suggest the latter.

We, but not Jesus and Mary, are born sinners because Adam sinned. We cease to be sinners (there is only a remaining "tinder of sin") immediately on baptism, but we can become sinners in the full and damning sense again if we sin mortally.

[Marta]

We, but not Jesus and Mary, are born sinners because Adam sinned. We cease to be sinners (there is only a remaining "tinder of sin") immediately on baptism, but we can become sinners in the full and damning sense again if we sin mortally.

Hebrews 9, "since a death has occurred that redeems them from the offenses committed under the first covenant") What Faber wants to know - was this debt from the 1st agreement? Through Adam & Eve? Since we know that the Exodus was a redemption process by God through his servant Moshe, correct. What's good about the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 is that he explains that even though the Israelites were redemption and were baptized (and as an example to us all), God was not pleased with them and scattered them. The same thing can happen to us (and the Apostle Paul use this same example in Romans 11:17 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind.Isaiah 55:11) 8 However, if it continues to produce thorns and thistles, it is worthless and in danger of being cursed, and in the end will be burned.

In Hebrews 6, "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who were once enlightened"? The writer does not say, "us who were once enlightened," nor "you," but "those who have once been enlightened." He draws a sharp contrast between "Beloved, we are persuaded better things of you," -

A critical word in the interpretation of this passage is adunatos translated "impossible" in all of our accurate English translations. It is also used in Hebrews 6:18 where the author tells us it is impossible for God to lie, In Hebrews 10:4 it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins, and in Hebrews 11:6 we are told that without faith it is impossible to please God. Here it reads, "For it is impossible . . . to renew them again to repentance." The word "renew" must also be taken with its full meaning. Repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit on the heart of the individual. The Holy Spirit brings about this change in the mind that affects the whole person.

quote

Can this statement be true? Even when reading Nehemiah 9 and Daniel 9 in the same context in prayer as to be forgiven and in sincerity the children of Israel at that time. And, in the same vein as both Leviticus and Matthew on how many time that you forgive your brother or brothers for wronging. The sins that remain on the soul can they be covered (sort of speak) but not completely washed away? Could this be with Adam and Eve? Covered as to survive but not washed away? See also this passage, Hebrews 6 "8 However, if it continues to produce thorns and thistles, it is worthless and in danger of being cursed, and in the end will be burned." or even this passage, "15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up and causes you trouble, or many of you will become defiled."

[Marta]

We, but not Jesus and Mary, are born sinners because Adam sinned. We cease to be sinners (there is only a remaining "tinder of sin") immediately on baptism, but we can become sinners in the full and damning sense again if we sin mortally.

Correction: What's good about the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 is that he explains that even though the Israelites were redeemed and were baptized (1 Corinthians 10:2-5 and the Apostle Paul used this as an example to us all), God was not pleased with them and scattered most of them. The same thing can happen to us (and the Apostle Paul use this same example in Romans 11:17 The Ingrafting of the Gentiles).

The reason why I brought up Matthew and Leviticus is because that when you/ or we "ask" for forgiveness from our brother (as with God) you ask in all sincerity - from the soul. As scripture states - God knows the spirit and thoughts of every soul and know its sincerity. When we accept Christ or when we are redeemed (bought from a debt) it is out of Love for us but in return God knows our own thought for that gift.

Is it man's sinful nature or his sincerity/love for what was given to him?

[Marta]

We, but not Jesus and Mary, are born sinners because Adam sinned. We cease to be sinners (there is only a remaining "tinder of sin") immediately on baptism, but we can become sinners in the full and damning sense again if we sin mortally.

.

The idea with the original passage of the unclean spirit is that man can't save himself or can't clean up his own sins (the many) or that the sins that were in his life needed God's grace, forgiveness before this man could continue on. The passage stated that the spirit "roamed" looking for another place and couldn't find any - so that "sin" or "spirit" takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. Making it impossible for the man to change - or even in this state of sin can one receive God's grace? (1 Samuel 14:41)

1 Thessalonians 2: 16, "In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last"

Sin must have limits - and you wonder, it almost as if sin racks up a debt until a person feels so much debt that they become overwhelmed. It is impossible for one to save himself from sin even when a man wants to change his life and to make himself clean again - it is by the grace of God and a sincere heart, "2 Timothy 2: 22 Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart." Even though we may "clean" ourselves up (again) it doesn't necessarily mean that God partook in the salvation. When bringing up salvation - it is by God's compassion and mercy that we are saved, inside, John 6:37. There were a few (some) as the apostle Paul said that were scattered in the desert because they looked back, sort of speak, to Egypt - much like Lot's wife who looked back (when the angel told them not to) toward Sodom and Gomorrah. 2 Timothy 2: 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentanceMy soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior"