The Pagan Next Door

[eudyptes]

I refuse to brow beat my children into getting on their knees and saying the 'Salvation Prayer'. If they are one of Jesus Christ's and are called they will hear his voice and they will follow him. If not, all the brainwashing in the world on my part will only cause them to grow up to be angry exchristians.

I'm very clear that I'm a Christian and that their mother and I are convinced that Jesus Christ is the 'one way, the one truth, and the one life' and that they will obey us while they are in our home -- however, they have to decide for themselves if they are going to be Christians or not.

I want to be there when they face the inevidible crises of deciding which path they are going to follow. If my daughter becomes a Wiccan I want her to do it out in the open and not have to pretend she is otherwise.

This is a difficult step of faith for me to take as a parent. I'd love to sit them down and force the 'Jesus Prayer' onto them just so I could write a date in their Bibles and forget about it. However, I'm looking for the call of the Holy Spirit upon their lives and I don't want some stupid rote prayer to get in the way of a vibrant, real, and lasting relationship with the holy.

Ever since I was 6 my relationship with G_d has been an intensly personal call -- if my kids don't pick up on that then there is nothing I can do about it.

My 2 cents...

I've been involved with youth/college age ministry since 1991. It is distressing and disturbing to watch "good church kids" fall/run away from the "faith of their parents".

I can't count how many times I've talked with a 'kid' who really didn't know why or what they believed, they just accepted things because that's what Mom and Dad told me to believe. Most of these kids had some real struggles with their faith - or lack thereof. I've always believed that we should represent what other faiths believe in a fair and nonsensationalized way, taking the time to explain why, as a Christian, I disagree with the belief. (Slightly off topic, even if they don't look at other beliefs I think we should challenge teens to learn the whats and whys -- not to debate or argue, but to make their faith, their faith -- to help them to develop a real relationship with Christ. Not a rote, Sunday school knowledge of Mom & Dad's beliefs.)

I've had some parents 'take me to task' on my approach...but in sitting down with most of them and talking through it, they tended to agree. If we refuse to talk - in reasonable tones and honestly - about other beliefs we set them up to be cool and taboo to the mind of someone wanting to rebel. If they already have the information and the counter to it, it takes away some of the taboo nature.

I think your approach is the right way to do things, be honest, reasonable and trust God, nothing wrong with that.

[Meh_Gerbil]

I'll make one last comment. Try to show her the "cool factor" in Christianity. It's there but it's often overlooked.

I agree in part -- but I'm looking for them to develop a relationship with G_d.

[Darth Executor]

I agree in part -- but I'm looking for them to develop a relationship with G_d.

First, spelling God "G_d" is annoying and unnecessary. Second, they can't do that if they dump Christianity.

[technomage]

First, spelling God "G_d" is annoying and unnecessary.

Darth, my friend ... you may find it annoying, but does not own scripture recommend that you not judge those who do such things for consience's sake? Rom 14:1 "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters."

Second, they can't do that if they dump Christianity.

And this is the point where you both enter the land of "Doctrinally correct ... but factually in error." But that's a topic for another time.

[Darth Executor]

Darth, my friend ... you may find it annoying, but does not own scripture recommend that you not judge those who do such things for consience's sake? Rom 14:1 "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters."

Conscience's sake? Trendyness's sake maybe. I don't really care if he does it or not I simply stated my opinion.

And this is the point where you both enter the land of "Doctrinally correct ... but factually in error." But that's a topic for another time.

Yes yes nothing can keep us away from God I know...

[technomage]

Conscience's sake? Trendyness's sake maybe.

Maybe if you knew why he does so you'd be less likely to shoot your mouth off foolishly, my friend.

[Darth Executor]

Maybe if you knew why he does so you'd be less likely to shoot your mouth off foolishly, my friend.

Please enlighten me.

[technomage]

Please enlighten me.

Why not ask the Mad_Gerbil directly? I have my conjecture as to why, but MG is the "horse's mouth," so to speak.

[Darth Executor]

Why not ask the Mad_Gerbil directly? I have my conjecture as to why, but MG is the "horse's mouth," so to speak.

You postulated that I was wrong. Surely youd must have something to say otherwise you wouldn't have said anything.

[technomage]

You postulated that I was wrong.

No, I didn't. I postulated that this may be an issue of conscience with him. Of course, I also postulated that you were shooting your mouth off foolishly, and it doesn't look like that's changed, either.

As for my conjecture: I know many practicing Jews do not spell out the vowels in English words such as G_D or L_rd, to make a distinction (in their minds) between HaShem, the True G_d, and false Gods, and to prevent even taking the word G_D in vain. I would conjecture that MG does something very similar.

[Darth Executor]

No, I didn't. I postulated that this may be an issue of conscience with him. Of course, I also postulated that you were shooting your mouth off foolishly, and it doesn't look like that's changed, either.

Define "shooting my mouth of foolishly"? Do you mean that I did not think of the "good" reasons why he did it? Because I knew the stuff you gave me in the next section already and I don't buy it. I thought it was a dumb trend before and I still do. If that offends you or anybody else, too bad.

As for my conjecture: I know many practicing Jews do not spell out the vowels in English words such as G_D or L_rd, to make a distinction (in their minds) between HaShem, the True G_d, and false Gods, and to prevent even taking the word G_D in vain. I would conjecture that MG does something very similar.

And I would conjencture that it's a redundant Jewish trend that MG found catchy.

[technomage]

Define "shooting my mouth of foolishly"? Do you mean that I did not think of the "good" reasons why he did it?

Perhaps you are shooting off your mouth foolishly because Rom 14 makes it quite clear that, according to your scriptures, you are to respect your brother's choice to do this, regardless of your opinion of it.

Rom 14:4 "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

Mad_Gerbil is not your servant, so who are you to look down on him for choosing to do this?

[Darth Executor]

Perhaps you are shooting off your mouth foolishly because Rom 14 makes it quite clear that, according to your scriptures, you are to respect your brother's choice to do this, regardless of your opinion of it.

Rom 14:4 "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

Mad_Gerbil is not your servant, so who are you to look down on him for choosing to do this?

Would you like more straw for your man masta Justin?

[technomage]

Would you like more straw for your man masta Justin?

At this point you have a choice: you may bow to the authority of your scripture, or rebel against it. But if you choose to rebel against the authority of your scripture, I'd recommend changing the little icon by the penquin beneath your name.

You might also want to skip the racial jokes: I find them to be repugnant.

[Darth Executor]

At this point you have a choice: you may bow to the authority of your scripture, or rebel against it. But if you choose to rebel against the authority of your scripture, I'd recommend changing the little icon by the penquin beneath your name.

Or I can sit here and keep laughing as you're getting ridiculously worked up over a straw man of what you think I meant to say.

You might also want to skip the racial jokes: I find them to be repugnant.

What racial joke? It was a reference to Batman's butler...