Joseph Smith Today!

[Krusader]

I've always wondered whether or not Mormonism would have been as successful had the time frame of the discovery of the Gold Plates, the "grove" experience of Smith, and his angelic visitations occured in the 20th or 21st centuries rather than mid 19th century.

The nineteenth century was a real spawning ground for cults: Adventism, Christian Science, Russellism, etc. I frankly don't think Smith could have gotten "over" on more educated people with greater technology.

Any comments?

[Alien]

I've always wondered whether or not Mormonism would have been as successful had the time frame of the discovery of the Gold Plates, the "grove" experience of Smith, and his angelic visitations occured in the 20th or 21st centuries rather than mid 19th century.

The nineteenth century was a real spawning ground for cults: Adventism, Christian Science, Russellism, etc. I frankly don't think Smith could have gotten "over" on more educated people with greater technology.

Any comments?

Jim Jones
Benny Hinn
Rev Moon
Scientology
Those "comet" guys that killed themselves
Canadian Lottery scams

[rangerbob]

I've always wondered whether or not Mormonism would have been as successful had the time frame of the discovery of the Gold Plates, the "grove" experience of Smith, and his angelic visitations occured in the 20th or 21st centuries rather than mid 19th century.

The nineteenth century was a real spawning ground for cults: Adventism, Christian Science, Russellism, etc. I frankly don't think Smith could have gotten "over" on more educated people with greater technology.

Any comments?

Crusader, JS was a product of the 19th century, the Book of Mormon was a 19th century invention, early mormon doctrine was of a 19th century mind set. excluding polygamy, that was joe's perverson.
So, if good ol jo was here today, his scheme would be different, but he would still be the center of attention, that's what narcissuses breath on.

[Krusader]

Jim Jones
Benny Hinn
Rev Moon
Scientology
Those "comet" guys that killed themselves
Canadian Lottery scams

Yes, but Smith would have had to update the gold plates story - possibly alien space craft landing with plutonium plates!

[technomage]

Yes, but Smith would have had to update the gold plates story - possibly alien space craft landing with plutonium plates!

That's just the props, Crusader--the basic story could have stood today, because the basic gullability of humankind is unchanged.

[Krusader]

That's just the props, Crusader--the basic story could have stood today, because the basic gullability of humankind is unchanged.

Probably so, but I think the women would have gotten a little antsy about the polygamy thing.

[technomage]

Probably so, but I think the women would have gotten a little antsy about the polygamy thing.

Eh ... probalby.

I've told you my joke about the absolute Biblical proscription of polygamy, haven't I?

There's no way a Christian can have two wives ... Jesus Himself said "No man can serve two masters...."

[Krusader]

Eh ... probalby.

I've told you my joke about the absolute Biblical proscription of polygamy, haven't I?

There's no way a Christian can have two wives ... Jesus Himself said "No man can serve two masters...."

That's funny!

[Goliath]

That's funny!

Crusader: Doesn't it seem to you that people will buy into any outlandish, wacky idea or fantasy these days? You name it and they embrace it. THe only thing they reject as too over the top or totally unbelievable is Christianity. If they can pray to rocks, they could believe in some guy blowing into town with some golden plates preaching polygamy. The snakeoil is the same. The technique is just a little more slick. Goliath

[Conductor42]

People say that about Chrisitianity, Judaism, Catholicism, etc...

I've always wondered whether or not Mormonism would have been as successful had the time frame of the discovery of the Gold Plates, the "grove" experience of Smith, and his angelic visitations occured in the 20th or 21st centuries rather than mid 19th century.

The nineteenth century was a real spawning ground for cults: Adventism, Christian Science, Russellism, etc. I frankly don't think Smith could have gotten "over" on more educated people with greater technology.

Any comments?

[technomage]

People say that about Chrisitianity, Judaism, Catholicism, etc...

And will for any path of faith that ever has formed in the past, or will form in the future.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Krusader]

People say that about Chrisitianity, Judaism, Catholicism, etc...

Christ has always been maligned - however, he rose from the dead to vindicate his Gospel - something no other religioius figure has ever done.....you can never put Christ in the same class as Smith and other charlatans. He remained poor to the end of His life; He had no place to lay His head; He gave all He had to the poor - unlike Smith who made a living deceiving people.

[Goliath]

Christ has always been maligned - however, he rose from the dead to vindicate his Gospel - something no other religioius figure has ever done.....you can never put Christ in the same class as Smith and other charlatans. He remained poor to the end of His life; He had no place to lay His head; He gave all He had to the poor - unlike Smith who made a living deceiving people.

Crusader: Yes, and CHRIST'S tomb is empty! Additionally, Christianity and Judaism have been supported by secular historical accounts as well. Most of the historical accounts I've read about Joe Smith depict him as a flim flam type and a fraud. Goliath

[Krusader]

Crusader: Yes, and CHRIST'S tomb is empty! Additionally, Christianity and Judaism have been supported by secular historical accounts as well. Most of the historical accounts I've read about Joe Smith depict him as a flim flam type and a fraud. Goliath

Yes, Smith was a highly talented flim flam artist. I doubt he would have been as successful today with the old "God spoke to me in the grove," story. However, if he converted it to space aliens visiting him with radiating plates, there are probably a whole lot of people who would buy into it.

[freelight]

Yes, Smith was a highly talented flim flam artist. I doubt he would have been as successful today with the old "God spoke to me in the grove," story. However, if he converted it to space aliens visiting him with radiating plates, there are probably a whole lot of people who would buy into it.

I cannot speak from a converts point of view as I was born and raised lds. The grove story was just part of the cultural conditioning or perhaps 'tradition' is a better word. Only as I began to look from the outside as an objective researcher and learn more by reviewing what critics of the church were saying about the data available...did I do a double-take on the whole gold-plates story. Indeed, such a stunt could only be pulled back in that day as it was the natural offspring of such environs. The BoM was born and bred in such a time and could not have been hatched at any other time. (all things come in their own season). Its existence proves that....as we can reflect on it today. What is more interesting is how thousands today see the JS of yesterday as being real and substancial for today. Evidently the belief/mythos/romance of the gold plates story lives on.

I reasoned with a returned missionary who is kinda lax on his lds faith these days...yet nevertheless sports the BoM as a kind of well intended and meaningful myth-story, that while it was an invention...it still nonetheless contains valuable teaching for us today - in other words...even though it was a scam or made-up story....the elements within the story still teach 'truth' or convey accurate spiritual allegories, principles, etc. I dont know if I can buy that logic wholly....as I could very well adopt George Lucas Star Wars stories/sagas to serve such a purpose. Lets not forget JR Tolkein as well.


paul