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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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John 3:16 Support for Limited Atonement

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  • Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
    Hardly. Take the verse under consideration. It says - "...God gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Christ should not perish,..." That is a statement of fact. It says nothing about those not believing in Christ. It says nothing about how people come to the place where they are believing. God did not give His son for unbelievers and you cannot claim that He did based on this verse.
    For God so loved the world: "The world", (The word "world: can only be understood as universally inclusive, never can it be interpreted as exclusive.) universal love for all that he created, saint and sinner. That he gave his only begotten Son, he gave his Son to placate his love for the whole of creation. This act of grace establishes his right to judge his saints as well as sinners that do not come to faith. Nothing, absolutely nothing here to suggest limited atonement. His atonement establishes his dominion over believers as well as unbelievers. He is the judge of the living as well as the dead..
    Last edited by dacristoy; 03-08-2015, 12:35 PM.

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    • Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
      John 3:16

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      "...whosoever believes in him..." tells us that all people will not be saved. Even though God is said to "so love" the world, that love does not mean that all people will be saved. It is only those who believe in Christ who will be saved.

      "...whosoever believes in him..." describes an unique group of people - those who will be saved. Those who believe in Christ are also called God's elect. Thus, we can read John 3:16 this way-

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that God's elect should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      As John 3:16 emphasizes, God gave His son so that His elect would not perish. It was never God's intent to save all people and He did not send Christ to the cross to save all people.
      ## "...that whosoever...everlasting life" is semantically equivalent to "so that to come to belief in Him, is to come to everlasting life". The verse is saying what St John 14.6 says, in a slightly different way. The number of those who believe is not an issue in the text - the emphasis is on the fact of recognising Christ (as in the prologue to St. John 1), and the result of so doing. St John is interested in some features of predestination, but that interest is not to the fore in this verse; if present at all, it is subdued.

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