This is what scares me about Same sex marriage

[salvationfound]

I mentioned this in another thread but I wanted to start one explaining this
point.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1423376/posts

Institutions fear losing tax breaks if they oppose same-sex unions; Rightly so, gay-rights group says

Churches that oppose same-sex marriage legislation have good reason to fear for their charitable status, a leading gay-rights advocate is warning.

"If you are at the public trough, if you are collecting taxpayers' money, you should be following taxpayers' laws. And that means adhering to the Charter," says Kevin Bourassa, who in 2001 married Joe Varnell in one of Canada's first gay weddings, and is behind www.equalmarriage.ca.

This is what scares me more than anything else about same-sex marriage.
Please I ask everyone read the whole article before responding.

[Meh_Gerbil]

I mentioned this in another thread but I wanted to start one explaining this
point.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1423376/posts



This is what scares me more than anything else about same-sex marriage.
Please I ask everyone read the whole article before responding.

Then churches will pay taxes.
And the truth will march on.

[Gideon Brown]

Then churches will pay taxes.
And the truth will march on.

See, that's my immediate reaction, too. I don't really know much about this issue, but I'd like to hear opinions from some people who think this would be a really big deal. My initial thought is 'Ok, so we don't waste any more money on opulence and frivolities. That's all. I mean, how much money does the Chinese church have?'

I understand that forcing churches to pay taxes might also force them to cut down on some evangelistic programs (initially, anyway, until we could become more inventive), but still... do we really believe in a God who needs to remain tax-free in order to spread the gospel? I don't think we do, do we?

Aside from that, I remember reading some other article in which a gay-rights advocate suggested that churches could keep their tax-free status for the portions of the church that actually provide charitable services (e.g., meals for the poor) and be taxed on the rest. It made me wonder: if they want to play that sort of game, could churches simply respond by spreading out these sorts of activities throughout the entire church building?

[BeHereNow]

Can someone remind me why churches don't pay taxes?

[Gideon Brown]

Can someone remind me why churches don't pay taxes?

I partially explained it in my edit - many of them do provide charitable services like meals for the poor, etc. Aside from that, well... good point, as far as I can see. Of course, I would argue that spreading the gospel is charitable...

[Duder]

I mentioned this in another thread but I wanted to start one explaining this
point.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1423376/posts



This is what scares me more than anything else about same-sex marriage. Please I ask everyone read the whole article before responding.

Sal -

If this is the main thing that worries you, then you can rest easy and drop your opposition to gay marriage because you've been confusing two distinct issues here.

If gay people get married, that would present no threat to your church's tax-exemption. The threat is an argument being made by some gay-marriage advocates. The fight to protect your religion's social privilages, therefore, is with the advocates and their methods, but not with the thing for which they advocate.

[salvationfound]

It isn't so much that churches would lose their tax status I always assumed
it would happen eventually. But because a pastor won't marry gay people
THAT is reason they lose it? That blows my mind.

I'm sorry Duder you haven't said anything that convinces me. Maybe
posting a few articles explaining your point might help.

[Duder]

It isn't so much that churches would lose their tax status I always assumed
it would happen eventually. But because a pastor won't marry gay people
THAT is reason they lose it? That blows my mind.

I'm sorry Duder you haven't said anything that convinces me. Maybe
posting a few articles explaining your point might help.

But Sal, what you have not told us is how gay marriage itself is the threat. If I understand this right, the threat you have outlined is the result of 1) religion's opposition to gay marriage and 2) an attack on religious privilage by gay rights activists. But none of that should cause us any concern about gay marriage itself. Your beef is against something other than gay marriage.

That is why your statement "this is what scares me more than anything else about same-sex marriage" doesn't make sense. If that is what scares you about gay marriage, your fears are misplaced.

[Duder]

Can someone remind me why churches don't pay taxes?

Greets, BeHereNow -

I think the govenment rightly refrains from taxing charities. Let's say I earned $125 today, and for philanthropic reasons I decide not to keep possession of the money for myself, but instead I give it to the downtown rescue mission. In other words, today I am not working for me, but for the rescue mission. Now, the government has already taxed the rescue mission's money when it withheld $25 from these earnings. When I give my net daily proceeds to the mission, they are only getting $100, and not the full amount that was earned.

The government decides that charitable giving is good, and so as not to discourage it they refrain from double-dipping in transactions that proceed from a charitable heart (as from me to the rescue mission).

I believe that charity should generally be encouraged. I think it qualifies as charity (love) when a person donates money for God's work. So I approve the tax-exempt status of religious institutions.

[Sheepdog]

actually, i could have sworn that churches could be tax-exempt even without a 503(c) status. i forgot where i read it, but i thought they were covered by default by some other clause.

[patteeu]

It isn't so much that churches would lose their tax status I always assumed
it would happen eventually. But because a pastor won't marry gay people
THAT is reason they lose it? That blows my mind.

I'm sorry Duder you haven't said anything that convinces me. Maybe
posting a few articles explaining your point might help.

If this frightens you I'd imagine that you are scared to death of President Bush's Faith Based Initiatives program. Thats where the government is going to start attaching strings.

No religious leader has EVER been forced (by the government) to marry someone that they didn't want to marry. When you find the first example to the contrary, I'll grant that you have justification for your fear. Until then, I'd say you've been duped by fearmongers.

P.S. I can't say what will happen in Canada (which may be your primary concern), but in the US your fear is completely unfounded.

[Meh_Gerbil]

The problem I have with churches paying taxes is:

1: It is an organization built voluntarially by people who donate money that has already been taxed. It is a pretty lousy thing to do to feel as if every time 3-4 people throw some money into a pile that a little government reptile has to get a cut of it.

2: Much of the church's activity is charitable. There are inner city missions, food banks, and health clinics run by Christian organizations in every major city in the USA. Despite what you may feel about Christianity these organizations are doing alot of good -- in a sense, the church already pays a generous tax but instead of passing it through the hands of a greasy government bureuacrat the dough goes straight to the people. (1)

3: We've a tradition of not taxing churches -- what would the tax rate on a Cathederal be? Do we really wanna be taxing something like that? What next, museums?


---------------------------------------------
NOTES:
1: I attended a big fundy white church in the south for several years. Once, while I spent time trying to help some of the poor people in the area a down and out black woman came to the church with a $250.00 electric bill in the heat of summer -- she didn't attend the church but she got her bill paid. Do we wanna tax people who help other people like that? Should we have paid half the bill so that the other $125.00 could go to uncle Sam?

[James Peter]

I have to say I much prefer the British system (no surprise there, lol) where not only are charities not taxed but any money that is given to a charity isn't taxed the first time either (every £1 given by a taxpayer is worth £1.28 to the charity if they claim back from the Inland Revenue). And I guess it depends on how you define 'charity' but over here any organisation that exists 'for the advancement of religion' and has an annual income of £1,000 or more HAS to register as a charity. Can the Church survive without being tax-exempt? Sure. But it should be recognised that the state can survive and encourage charity too - and that doing so benefits the state.

[Sheepdog]

yeah, a church doesn't have to file with the IRS over here, but it's a good idea. i can't say i've heard of any that aren't filed as 503(c) non-profits.

[Blemonds]

What I find interesting is the backlash against homosexuals where same sex marriage is legal. Out of concerns about discrimination, homosexuals have been receiving benefits from employers for domestic partners. If same sex marriage is legalized, then giving those benefits to domestic partners discriminates against opposite sex partners who are living together, unmarried. In order to give beneifts to same sex domestic partners, employers will have to also give beneifits to opposite sex partners who live together. Instead, employers are saying that since homosexuals can get those benefits by getting married, there is no need to provide them to unmarried partners. Since most homosexual couples in my opinion will elect not to get married, they will end up losing the benefits they fought so hard to obtain.