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Is defending a 'young' earth necessary?

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  • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    You're hopeless! Plus you need to apply your last suggestion to yourself.
    Re-read my article (this time for understanding) to grasp what I've actually said.
    You're still light years above Santa Klaus* and Beagle Boy but don't slip!

    * in a post above ol' Klaus tries to 'educate' me about shatter cones and shocked quartz.
    That shows how well he read my article in which I discuss both of those effects.
    Oh well, ya got'ta forgive ol' Santa ... those elves must drive him cuckoo!

    Jorge
    What a load of crap. You presented, present, and will continue to present that paper of yours as 'an answer' to the problems presented to YEC by the craters left behind by meteor and asteroid impacts. I mean, just look at the site is sits at! What is its purpose Jorge? To provide 'answers' to those kinds of questions.

    But IF you understand shatter cones and shocked quartz - as you so arrogantly claim to here, then you KNOW they are not the possible remnants of a the kinds of steam explosion events you propose in that paper as a 'possible' explanation of these craters. Which means you know your paper is a load of crap.

    So, what we can glean from your verbal dance is that you know your paper is crap and is misleading those that don't understand it is a load of crap into thinking there is some plausible explanation for those craters other than asteroid and/or meteoroid impacts.

    It is despicable. It is actually hard (nearly impossible actually) for me to believe you think you could possibly be doing the right thing leaving it up on true origins given that reality. Are you so committed to YEC as an idea you are willing to lie and deceive to keep the idea alive!!!??? And what does that say for your proclaimed faith in Christ? That faith is not sufficient it appears to cause you to speak the truth when it will cost you your pride.


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 02-28-2015, 09:56 AM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      Let's suppose that you knew then what you know now (that Christ is LORD). How then would you have treated Him knowing that He was also "100% man" as well as 100% God?

      You see where this is leading, right? Your own words:
      "Every word and letter in it, very jot and tittle, was breathed out by God Himself. But this was not done by dictation, as Muslims believe of the Quran. Rather, every word and letter in the Bible was composed by a human author, just like any other work of literature, working from his own historical and cultural mileau. The Bible is both fully a product of man and fully a product of God."

      With that then, how do we treat the Word of God?

      Jorge
      I really don't see what you are getting at.

      I would have treated Jesus as fully God and fully man. Everything He said was completely true, but it was spoken in a first-century historical-cultural context and must be understood within this context. E.g. When He said that the mustard seed is "the smallest of all the seeds", he was not making an absolute scientific statement. He was speaking of the seeds that they knew about in their culture. When He said that a seed must go into the ground and "die" to produce fruit, He was not speaking of "death" in a modern biological sense; He was using the biological language of the day.

      We must treat the Word of God the same way. It is completely inerrant, infallible, and true. But it was communicated in a specific historical-cultural context, and its claims must be interpreted within this context. Pulling it out of context and reading it anachronistically will make it say falsehoods.
      "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
        Let's suppose that you knew then what you know now (that Christ is LORD). How then would you have treated Him knowing that He was also "100% man" as well as 100% God?

        You see where this is leading, right? Your own words:
        "Every word and letter in it, very jot and tittle, was breathed out by God Himself. But this was not done by dictation, as Muslims believe of the Quran. Rather, every word and letter in the Bible was composed by a human author, just like any other work of literature, working from his own historical and cultural mileau. The Bible is both fully a product of man and fully a product of God."

        With that then, how do we treat the Word of God?

        Jorge
        All of this belching of yours does not address interpretation.

        Did God inspire the Jorge/Hovind/Hambone/Sofarti interpretation?

        Also, I've pointed this out several times: Capitalizing "Word" in modern Christianity is only apropos in reference to the Logos, the 2nd Person of the Trinity. The Logos is NOT the same as the Bible (does that include the Deuterocanon -- RCs would say so!?).

        That's pretty close to Biblio-idolatry.

        The fact that you dopey KJV-onlyists don't seem to know is that, in King Jimbo's time, EVERY noun was capitalized! It's the same as proper German of the kind I learned in high school 46 years ago.

        Wise up, Klowny!

        This is just too much fun...

        K54

        Comment


        • Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
          All of this belching of yours does not address interpretation.

          Did God inspire the Jorge/Hovind/Hambone/Sofarti interpretation?

          Also, I've pointed this out several times: Capitalizing "Word" in modern Christianity is only apropos in reference to the Logos, the 2nd Person of the Trinity. The Logos is NOT the same as the Bible (does that include the Deuterocanon -- RCs would say so!?).

          That's pretty close to Biblio-idolatry.

          The fact that you dopey KJV-onlyists don't seem to know is that, in King Jimbo's time, EVERY noun was capitalized! It's the same as proper German of the kind I learned in high school 46 years ago.

          Wise up, Klowny!

          This is just too much fun...

          K54
          Yeah, I tend to avoid the capitalization for the same reason. Christ is the Logos, the Word. The Bible, while all the things Kirk said above, is not Christ and therefore it makes sense to reserve capitalization of 'the Word of God' to references that are to Christ a la John 1. The Bible is not an idol, it is not to be worshiped, it is not the 4th person of the polygon

          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
            It's really the best policy to remain quiet when you don't know what you're talking about.

            But wait ... in your case that might make you a mute for life! Bwahahahaha !!!

            Jorge
            Irony at its finest. Is it true or false that your buddy (you know, the one you mindlessly defend) committed tax fraud? Is it true that he kept up with the complex that the federal government was 'targeting' him for being a YEC (despite the fact other YEC's seem to avoid getting targeted by the government) and not for the fact he was a tax cheat?

            Are these above facts true or false? Why do you keep defending a man that does such things and makes excuses for his own bad behavior? If any atheist did the same thing; would you be condemning him instead of making excuses for him?

            BTW I see you avoided my question (yet again), so I take it that you're unable to explain how these radioactive isotopes keep showing an earth much older than 6,000 years? Figures that you'll avoid answering questions that expose your inability to answer...
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
              you guys remind me of Sheldon Cooper character.

              you know your science,

              ...but you don't know people.
              I know people just fine JR, you're just busy making excuses for Jorge because he says things you agree with.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                Many TEs (not all, just many of them) are closet "YEC" haters because of one primary reason: because we Biblical Creationists are unwilling to be Bible compromisers (as they are) and we publicly call them out on this. They resent that with every fiber in their body and the longer it goes on the angrier they become.
                I don't 'resent' you nor am I angry Jorge because you avoid answering questions and arguments against your position and instead choose to call people a bunch of names instead. Look how you dodged my question about how radioactive isotopes keep showing an earth much older than 6,000 years old and keep dodging other people's arguments and questions that expose your nonsense for what it truly is. So it seems all you have left is poor psychoanalysis, running from arguments/questions you can't answer, and just making up things about people because you're too dumb to refute a thing that was said to you. Do your YEC friends a favor and stop talking. Most of them are tried of you embarrassing them with your behavior (I sure would be).

                Long ago in my life I learned a lesson: people will get irritated to various levels if lies are spoken about them. But if you REALLY want to get someone boiling-hot pissed off, tell them something that is TRUE but that they do not want to either accept or to have exposed. Man-oh-man, you'll get their full wrath - with smoke coming out of their ears - in a New York minute.
                Projecting again? Than you will not have a problem explaining how the ratio of radioactive isotopes keep showing an earth that is much older than 6,000 years old or will you just choose to call me a bunch of names instead because you can't come up with an adequate answer because you know the laws of physics don't play into your arguments? Perhaps you'll explain why we can see objects much further out than 6-10,000 light years? No? Well, maybe you'll explain how the earth's layers add up to much more than a 6,000 year old earth? No? Perhaps than you'll explain how shatter cones and shocked quartz expose your 'steam explosion' nonsense is well... nonsense? No? Gosh... you talk about 'truth', but when it comes right down to you... you refuse to show any truth yourself. How funny! Do YEC's a favor Jorge, stop talking.

                Gosh ... soooooo many TEs, Taoists, Atheists et al. ... so little time.
                Got to run away from arguments/questions you can't answer!
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  I know people just fine JR, you're just busy making excuses for Jorge because he says things you agree with.
                  you don't remind me of Sheldon Cooper.
                  To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    What a load of crap. You presented, present, and will continue to present that paper of yours as 'an answer' to the problems presented to YEC by the craters left behind by meteor and asteroid impacts. I mean, just look at the site is sits at! What is its purpose Jorge? To provide 'answers' to those kinds of questions.

                    But IF you understand shatter cones and shocked quartz - as you so arrogantly claim to here, then you KNOW they are not the possible remnants of a the kinds of steam explosion events you propose in that paper as a 'possible' explanation of these craters. Which means you know your paper is a load of crap.

                    So, what we can glean from your verbal dance is that you know your paper is crap and is misleading those that don't understand it is a load of crap into thinking there is some plausible explanation for those craters other than asteroid and/or meteoroid impacts.

                    It is despicable. It is actually hard (nearly impossible actually) for me to believe you think you could possibly be doing the right thing leaving it up on true origins given that reality. Are you so committed to YEC as an idea you are willing to lie and deceive to keep the idea alive!!!??? And what does that say for your proclaimed faith in Christ? That faith is not sufficient it appears to cause you to speak the truth when it will cost you your pride.

                    Jim
                    Three words ... count them, three : READ FOR COMPREHENSION.

                    Have a nice day, O-Mudd.

                    Jorge

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      I don't 'resent' you nor am I angry Jorge because you avoid answering questions and arguments against your position and instead choose to call people a bunch of names instead. Look how you dodged my question about how radioactive isotopes keep showing an earth much older than 6,000 years old and keep dodging other people's arguments and questions that expose your nonsense for what it truly is. So it seems all you have left is poor psychoanalysis, running from arguments/questions you can't answer, and just making up things about people because you're too dumb to refute a thing that was said to you. Do your YEC friends a favor and stop talking. Most of them are tried of you embarrassing them with your behavior (I sure would be).



                      Projecting again? Than you will not have a problem explaining how the ratio of radioactive isotopes keep showing an earth that is much older than 6,000 years old or will you just choose to call me a bunch of names instead because you can't come up with an adequate answer because you know the laws of physics don't play into your arguments? Perhaps you'll explain why we can see objects much further out than 6-10,000 light years? No? Well, maybe you'll explain how the earth's layers add up to much more than a 6,000 year old earth? No? Perhaps than you'll explain how shatter cones and shocked quartz expose your 'steam explosion' nonsense is well... nonsense? No? Gosh... you talk about 'truth', but when it comes right down to you... you refuse to show any truth yourself. How funny! Do YEC's a favor Jorge, stop talking.

                      Got to run away from arguments/questions you can't answer!
                      The "questions" you pose above have been addressed and answered - to the extent possible - many, many times including with links to numerous sources (CRS, AiG, CMI, CGS, ICR, others). I've done all I can to help you but some people are simply beyond any help (at least beyond my help).

                      Also rest assured that your M.O. has been fully exposed for quite some time now, Terror. You keep asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again, each time claiming that, "My questions have not been answered and you just keep running away."

                      BTW, don't take credit for that unethical strategy - I've noticed that it is a standard M.O. by most TEs, Atheists, Humanists and similar lab specimens. Roland, for instance, has used the, "Jorge runs away" schtick more times than I care to remember. It is a M.O. that ranks right up there with ad hominem attacks: they can't defeat the argument and so they attack (vilify, demonize) the man.

                      Like I said, your M.O. is exposed ... you've been made, Terror.

                      Jorge

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
                        you don't remind me of Sheldon Cooper.
                        You do realize that Sheldon is a fictional character, in a TV show, that is designed to get laughs, right?
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                          The "questions" you pose above have been addressed and answered - to the extent possible - many, many times including with links to numerous sources (CRS, AiG, CMI, CGS, ICR, others). I've done all I can to help you but some people are simply beyond any help (at least beyond my help).
                          Sorry Jorge, but that isn't an answer, but a dodge. CRS, AiG, etc don't answer the questions, but avoid them because they are unable to answer them, just like you are. Dodging what you can't answer will not make it go away (no matter how much you wish it would go away). Besides, if this so easy, it shouldn't be an issue for you to answer at all. Go ahead, explain how radioactive isotopes, which show an old earth, do not actually show an old earth and actually work in favor of a young earth. I have heard some of your YEC groups trying to rebut C-14 measurements, but it is too bad that C-14 isn't the only radioactive isotope found in nature. There's also pretty well written refutations of the C-14 arguments, such as this article. Let me guess, you're going to call me a bunch of names, avoid answering the argument, and run away (while declaring victory) to start a new thread again where you avoid answering arguments against your position and the cycle starts all over again?

                          Also rest assured that your M.O. has been fully exposed for quite some time now, Terror. You keep asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again, each time claiming that, "My questions have not been answered and you just keep running away."
                          No Jorge, the 'answers' you keep giving is you keep saying to 'I already answered it and don't need to quote it, link to it, or re-explain my answer in any way' because I don't think you have an answer and just hoping other people are stupid enough to not see you running away. Sorry Jorge, but saying you 'answered it elsewhere' isn't an answer, it is a dodge and not even a clever dodge at that.

                          BTW, don't take credit for that unethical strategy - I've noticed that it is a standard M.O. by most TEs, Atheists, Humanists and similar lab specimens. Roland, for instance, has used the, "Jorge runs away" schtick more times than I care to remember. It is a M.O. that ranks right up there with ad hominem attacks: they can't defeat the argument and so they attack (vilify, demonize) the man.
                          Looking in that mirror again?

                          Like I said, your M.O. is exposed ... you've been made, Terror.
                          More irony, but yet... your usual M.O. is exposed again. You claim you have 'already answered', but nobody seems to remember this 'answer' you gave and you seem unable to produce this 'answer' you claim exist. Are you hoping the rest of us are too stupid to question you and to ask you where the beef is? While I might be a natural blonde, I'm not an idiot because I have watched you produce this same 'answer' over and over again for the past 8 years. It is the same sort of nonsense that cowards use. Funny, I've rehashed many 'answers' and arguments I've made over and over again during the same period of time. Why don't you or is the reality that your 'answers' are all bogus and you're hoping your dodging is fooling anybody (answer, it isn't, even many of your fellow YEC's keep their distance).
                          Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-01-2015, 08:34 AM.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            You do realize that Sheldon is a fictional character, in a TV show, that is designed to get laughs, right?
                            well yeah,

                            but the real people I personally know who are like that , you probably never heard of 'em
                            To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              The "questions" you pose above have been addressed and answered - to the extent possible - many, many times including with links to numerous sources (CRS, AiG, CMI, CGS, ICR, others). I've done all I can to help you but some people are simply beyond any help (at least beyond my help).
                              Hardly. You're "addressing" them merely constitutes saying that you've once addressed them and little or nothing more. And again your sources don't address the issues since those that write the articles have signed oaths and statements of faith swearing to ignore any and everything that doesn't match up to their presumptions. That is any and all evidence that demonstrates that the earth is more ancient than a few thousand years old and that evolution takes place is immediately disregarded from the start.

                              And it matters not a whit that they voluntarily sign such agreements the fact is that by doing so what they are doing can not in any sense be construed as giving science-based responses. Such cherry picking is the polar opposite plain and simple.

                              And CRS? The guys who have geocentrists like Gerardus D. Bouw writing for them? Seriously? You consider folks who do that a legitimate resource?

                              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              Also rest assured that your M.O. has been fully exposed for quite some time now, Terror. You keep asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again, each time claiming that, "My questions have not been answered and you just keep running away."
                              Perhaps because that is indeed exactly what you do

                              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              BTW, don't take credit for that unethical strategy - I've noticed that it is a standard M.O. by most TEs, Atheists, Humanists and similar lab specimens.
                              Is it unethical to point out something everyone notices about you? You have a hard earned reputation for it Jorge. As the old saying goes, you've made your bed now lie in it. Perhaps one day you'll come to understand that merely making an assertion is not the same as demonstrating something. And merely repeating the same assertion is not the same as providing corroboration for it.

                              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              Roland, for instance, has used the, "Jorge runs away" schtick more times than I care to remember. It is a M.O. that ranks right up there with ad hominem attacks: they can't defeat the argument and so they attack (vilify, demonize) the man.
                              The point is that there are almost never any arguments presented that need defeating. You can continue pretending otherwise but you're only fooling yourself.

                              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              Like I said, your M.O. is exposed ... you've been made, Terror.

                              Jorge
                              You're always good for a dose of unintended irony.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                                Three words ... count them, three : READ FOR COMPREHENSION.

                                Have a nice day, O-Mudd.

                                Jorge
                                Four words: Deal with the evidence.

                                K54

                                Comment

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