Yup, I still think the evidence is awful weak, but I'm happy to look at it before I pitch a screaming fit and shout it down.
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While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Is ordination of women to be Pastors [Overseer/Bishop] orthodox?
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThis is not at issue. Women in ministry roles. Women have been prophets too.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYup, I still think the evidence is awful weak, but I'm happy to look at it before I pitch a screaming fit and shout it down."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by Jesse View PostLol. I hear ya. Though you don't seem like the screaming type...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNope. I dont' need to scream - I got a shotgun, a shovel, and 40 acres. They will never find the body!"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by Jesse View PostYou forgot the lye. So yeah, you will probably get caught.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostIn reference to female authority figures within the early church, Mark Goodacre has a terrific (8 minute) podcast episode on the Apostle Junia mentioned in Romans 16:7.
"Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives [or, close companions] and my fellow-prisoners, who are well-known by [or, among] the apostles, who also have been in Christ before me." -- Romans 16:7 Analytical-Literal Translation. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, get your rocks and stones ready.....
1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Now you can throw some rocks.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostJunia is not said to be an Apostle. But was well known by them.
"Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives [or, close companions] and my fellow-prisoners, who are well-known by [or, among] the apostles, who also have been in Christ before me." -- Romans 16:7 Analytical-Literal Translation
salute Andronicus and Junias, my kindred, and my fellow-captives, who are of note among the apostles, who also have been in Christ before me.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by 37818 View Post"woman" read "wife." "man" read "husband."
Now you can throw some rocks.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd you want to get into that, eh?
So why would Paul, the great Church Planter, say
1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostIt does make much more sense of the childbearing statement that immediately follows.
The "she" is singular. And the saved in childbearing is understood refer to the birth of Christ. So beginning with Eve, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." And being fulfilled with Christ, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." [Genesis 3:15; Galatians 4:4, 5.]
And the "they" as how women of the faith are.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
*Genesis 1 and 2 being "contradictory",
Jephthah's daughter being a "human sacrifice",
"Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods." -- Deuteronomy 18:31.
And there are other arguments.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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I find this one hard. On one hand, I see woman in positions of leadership (in Scripture and in the modern day with them being blessed in their ministry), on the other I have been convinced by the principle of Biblical headship of the family. I have tentatively come to the conclusion that a woman should not lead a church if she is married because she should be led by her husband and not lead him, and they should be part of the same congregation, but a woman should be permitted if single, or a widow to lead a church and to lead ministries where her husband is not under her, such as Youth or Childrens, or even Missions or Prison ministry, anything so long as it's not her husband she is leading. If she is in a position of ecclesiastic power, perhaps her husband should also be, because while we are a priesthood of all believers, I also recognize a significance in those chosen to lead the priesthood.
I think that all came out right. But even if I was on either extreme of this topic, only men, or complete equality in male vs female leadership roles; I do not consider this a topic of orthodoxy vs heterodoxy, rather a non-essential that may be tied to good practice of the faith.Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5
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