Split Thread: Highly educated people (in science) ... a rabbit trail gone wild

[Fedmahn Kassad]

Today @ 03:32 AM post located here
Socrates:

No, SLPx is just jealous that a Ph.D. scientist and chessmaster has written a book that's apparently sold 1/4 of a million copies, and which might convince many that there are people who are intelligent and highly qualified in science who believe in creation.

Actually scientific illiteracy is a more likely reason for the book selling so many copies. Many non-scientists can't really tell the difference between science and pseudo-science, so they use books like Sarfati's to prop up their faith.

Surely you are aware that the number of "people who are intelligent and highly qualified in science who believe in creation" is a very small percentage, especially if you are talking about a literal Biblical interpretation. I am sure you have seen the polls correlating higher educations levels with greater acceptance of evolution. What does this mean? The smarter you become the more likely you are to accept false teachings like the Theory of Evolution? No, the smarter you become the better able you are to separate myth from fact.

FK

[Sher]

Today @ 07:57 AM post located here
Fedmahn Kassad:


Surely you are aware that the number of "people who are intelligent and highly qualified in science who believe in creation" is a very small percentage, especially if you are talking about a literal Biblical interpretation. I am sure you have seen the polls correlating higher educations levels with greater acceptance of evolution. What does this mean? The smarter you become the more likely you are to accept false teachings like the Theory of Evolution? No, the smarter you become the better able you are to separate myth from fact.

FK

Actually ... it is that "education" has "taught" this greater majority that if you see A ... it is interpreted as B, if you see C ... it is interpreted as D, etc.

Being "smart" in something doesn't mean you know the truth ... it only means you are educated to the curriculum that your teachers taught you.

If the indoctrination of evolution is more prevalent in education ... that is what the greater majority of people will learn and embrace. People who excel in this education are only as "smart" as the lessons they have learned and applied.

Look how many "smart" people ... well-educated people ... the greater majority of people ... believed in geocentricity ... and many other wrong ideas that was taught to them by their teachers.

Only by going back to the Word of the Eyewitness can we measure education against the Truth ... and determine if we are correct.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Today @ 04:32 AM post located here
Socrates:
Talk about pathetic huxterism -- whinging about font and page size! How petty can you get? 11 or 12 point is "large font"? Do authors choose these things anyway?

Naw, the publisher does when the author gives them a brief manuscript.

No, SLPx is just jealous that a Ph.D. scientist and chessmaster has written a book that's apparently sold 1/4 of a million copies, and which might convince many that there are people who are intelligent and highly qualified in science who believe in creation.

Wow. One quarter of a million copies? Are we getting materialistic here Socrates?
Besides, who gives a bunny's butt about Sarfati and chess, I can whip his butt in a triathlon before he could spout out "evolutionist".

Conversely, SLPx remains in obscurity, seething impotently against this widely-read attack on the materialistic philosophy...

How many copies of his book did AIG buy? 100,000? How do you know how widely read the book is? 250,000 people isn't that many. And if they are all creationists to begin with, what good is the book doing?

...masquerading as science that gives him pseudo-intellectual justification for his atheistic faith and his radical pro-abortion agenda

Wow, evolution does all that for him?

[SLPx]

Today @ 09:32 AM post located here
Socrates:

SLPx:

And by book I am referring to the small page size, large font very-long pamphlet-type thing that passes for a "book", Refuting (sic) Evolution.

Talk about pathetic huxterism -- whinging about font and page size! How petty can you get? 11 or 12 point is "large font"? Do authors choose these things anyway?

It is neither pathetic nor is it a "huxterism", though I must say that this roundabout way of trying to let me know that you know who I am is most childish and unnecessary. Unlike you, I do not feel the need to go to great lengths to hide my true identity, and if asked, I will gladly provide my CV which far outstrips yours in quality.
As far as "whinging" goes, I am merely pointing out that the physical size of the book is small to make up for the lack of content.

No, SLPx is just jealous that a Ph.D. scientist and chessmaster has written a book that's apparently sold 1/4 of a million copies, and which might convince many that there are people who are intelligent and highly qualified in science who believe in creation.

A PhD. chemist with a penchant for pontificating in areas non-chemistry related. And being a supposed "chessmaster" has no bearing on his supposed "scientist" status. Indeed, it would appear that mentining his chessplaying abilities is little more than a red herring - trying to get people to focus ont hat rather than the facrt that Safartis is in fact not qualified to write about many of the things he does. This is demonstrated by his many errors and misrepresenations, not to mention his many bizare conclusions that do no follow from the evidence.
But I see no reason to be jealous at all. I have never tried to write a book. I don't have the time, unlike Safrati, whose "job" is apparently to churn out anti-evolution propaganda targeted at a lay public, to write very long p[amphlets that will be promoted as books. If I were to write a book, I at least would take the time to ensure that I was properly representing those I cite.

Conversely, SLPx remains in obscurity, seething impotently against this widely-read attack on the materialistic philosophy masquerading as science that gives him pseudo-intellectual justification for his atheistic faith and his radical pro-abortion agenda

I have grown tired - accustomed to, but tired - of having this supposed "Christain" throw out these inflammatory charges. However, I find it strange that so "obscure" a person as myself in the world of science would be contacted by a TV game show as a n expert question evaluator, that I would have been invited to a closed meeting sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences, that I would be contacted and invited to present my opinion on Old World monkey phylogeny at an internatinal conference (which I could not attend due to a previous engagement), that some of my work is cited in the Tree of Life project, etc., which Sarfati remains truly obscure in the world of science, and is known only in the realm of the sientifically illiterate lay public - specifically those that already share his unorthodox religious views. :dunce:
It is extremely comical that this "anonymous" internet hack calling itself "Socrates" actually seems to believe that he has the requisite knowledge to make pronouncements on other people's "philosophies" and "agendas."
A mere chemist pontificating in matters of philosophy, religion, etc. Smacks of argumentum ad verucundiam. Big time.

Oh, to return to the topic as outlined by the IP, any "hate" in this book? I noticed not a trace.

Hatred of reality, I suppose. It must be a bummer to realise that one is a laughingstock in the scientific world and must resport to writing bombastic pamphlets and being employed as a full time creationist apoogist (that is, one who makes a living distortiung and twisting to prop up his faith). I'm sure that generates some hatred....

[SLPx]

Today @ 01:22 PM post located here
SherBear:



Actually ... it is that "education" has "taught" this greater majority that if you see A ... it is interpreted as B, if you see C ... it is interpreted as D, etc.

Being "smart" in something doesn't mean you know the truth ... it only means you are educated to the curriculum that your teachers taught you.

If the indoctrination of evolution is more prevalent in education ... that is what the greater majority of people will learn and embrace. People who excel in this education are only as "smart" as the lessons they have learned and applied.

Look how many "smart" people ... well-educated people ... the greater majority of people ... believed in geocentricity ... and many other wrong ideas that was taught to them by their teachers.

Only by going back to the Word of the Eyewitness can we measure education against the Truth ... and determine if we are correct.

:dunce:
Blah blah blah....


If you actually trhink that religion is NOT indoctrinaire, then they have done a good job on you...

Oh - I'm ignoring you....

[Sher]

Today @ 08:41 AM post located here
SLPx:

Oh - I'm ignoring you....

Not doing a very good job at it though Answering me when I wasn't even addressing you ...

You must hate that the ignore button doesn't work for me

(Why don't you go ignore yourself? )

[Fedmahn Kassad]

Today @ 07:22 AM post located here
SherBear:
Being "smart" in something doesn't mean you know the truth ... it only means you are educated to the curriculum that your teachers taught you.

If the indoctrination of evolution is more prevalent in education ... that is what the greater majority of people will learn and embrace. People who excel in this education are only as "smart" as the lessons they have learned and applied.

Look how many "smart" people ... well-educated people ... the greater majority of people ... believed in geocentricity ... and many other wrong ideas that was taught to them by their teachers.

Being "smart" means being able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Being more educated means that one is less likely to accept indoctrination at face value. This is why more educated people, especially scientists, reject the literal Bible. It conflicts with their observations of the world.

Other correlations with higher education are that you are less likely to believe in: Astrology, ghosts, flying saucers, and paranormal events in general. Do you think that's because they have been indoctrinated against belief in ghosts, or because their critical thinking skills have improved as their education has improved?

FK

[SLPx]

Today @ 02:08 PM post located here
SherBear:



Not doing a very good job at it though Answering me when I wasn't even addressing you ...

You must hate that the ignore button doesn't work for me

(Why don't you go ignore yourself? )

Yeah , I tried to put you on my ignore list. Funny that the moderaters take part in the discussions - often attempting to sidetrack them or posting inflammatory rhetoric - and yet can't be ignored. I guess it is sort of like rubbernecking at an accident scene - one is simultaneously repulsed and drawn in.

As for ignoring myself, well, I wouldn't want to horn in on your territory. I mean you have to be ignoring what you write half the time, lest I would hope you wouldn't write it!

[Sher]

Today @ 10:58 AM post located here
Fedmahn Kassad:

Being "smart" means being able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Being more educated means that one is less likely to accept indoctrination at face value. This is why more educated people, especially scientists, reject the literal Bible. It conflicts with their observations of the world.

Other correlations with higher education are that you are less likely to believe in: Astrology, ghosts, flying saucers, and paranormal events in general. Do you think that's because they have been indoctrinated against belief in ghosts, or because their critical thinking skills have improved as their education has improved?

FK

Higher education sorts the wheat from the chaff? @ Flying saucers ... SETI anyone?

Evidently one man's pseudoscience ... is a rather large group's science

... one that you must think rakes in millions (billions?) of dollars under false, uneducated pretenses, then ... eh?

Today @ 11:02 AM post located here
SLPx:

Yeah , I tried to put you on my ignore list. Funny that the moderaters take part in the discussions - often attempting to sidetrack them or posting inflammatory rhetoric - and yet can't be ignored.

Stinks to be you, doesn't it?

I guess it is sort of like rubbernecking at an accident scene - one is simultaneously repulsed and drawn in.

Yeah it is ... but it provides good material for us to laugh about later in the lounge

As for ignoring myself, well, I wouldn't want to horn in on your territory. I mean you have to be ignoring what you write half the time, lest I would hope you wouldn't write it!

Yes, HALF the time ... usually the boring repetition for those who have literacy problems and/or miss it the first time ...

... unlike some who have to be ignoring what they write ALL the time ...

( .... Psst ... You're supposed to be ignoring me .... remember? )

Sherry, who after earning being falsely accused before as being a "fundiliteralist"
........................... is really shocked that she wasn't taken ... well literally ...

(Repeat slowly after me ... "Go ... ignore ... yourself" ... literally)

[TheFiveSolas]

Moderator Notice

Socrates and SLPx, the tones of both of your posts to each other has not improved and again appears to be escalating.

The aggressiveness of both of you towards each other (and spilling over toward others) is not going to be tolerated during this period of heavy moderation.

I've requested once already that the tempers be tempered. This is now my second request.

Tone it.
Thanks

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[Fedmahn Kassad]

Sherbear: Higher education sorts the wheat from the chaff? @ Flying saucers ... SETI anyone?

Evidently one man's pseudoscience ... is a rather large group's science

... one that you must think rakes in millions (billions?) of dollars under false, uneducated pretenses, then ... eh?

FK: First of all, I have spoken out against SETI because I think it is a big waste of money and resources. I don’t doubt that there is life out there, but it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack on a world full of haystacks. Very difficult to detect.

However, what does SETI have to do with UFO’s? I will bet most of the people who support SETI don’t think we are being visited by aliens. They know that this is unlikely due to speed of light limitations that would make zipping around the galaxy impractical.

Finally, SETI is privately funded, and is very unlikely to be receiving billions in funding unless Bill Gates is highly interested in the project.

Again, you can scoff all you want and throw out red herrings like SETI all day. You will find poll after poll supports my point: More highly educated people are less likely to believe myths because they have better critical thinking skills.

FK

[Sher]

Today @ 04:59 PM post located here
Fedmahn Kassad:

FK: First of all, I have spoken out against SETI because I think it is a big waste of money and resources. I don’t doubt that there is life out there, but it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack on a world full of haystacks. Very difficult to detect.

Bully for you

... but what does that have to do with my point of others who are "educated" supporting it ... many scientists?

However, what does SETI have to do with UFO’s? I will bet most of the people who support SETI don’t think we are being visited by aliens. They know that this is unlikely due to speed of light limitations that would make zipping around the galaxy impractical.

... ahem ... oh, you were serious? ... Sorry ....

• The mission of the SETI Institute is to explore and explain the nature and prevalence of life in the universe. This mission encompasses projects covering a broad range of disciplines that include:
  
  Astronomy and planetary sciences
  Chemical evolution
  Origin on life
  Biological evolution
  Cultural Evolution
  The search for extraterrestrial intelligence
  
  (http://www.seti.org/litu/Welcome.html)

Notice the search for extraterrestrial intelligence? Not a far stretch from those that believe in UFOs ... "fundi-ET believers" aside. You'd have to prove the implied assertion that if scientist believe enough in ET life ... that they don't believe in UFOs used by ETs who might be advanced enough to combat their limited knowledge of space travel.

Warp 9.5, anyone? *Whoooosh ....*

Finally, SETI is privately funded, and is very unlikely to be receiving billions in funding unless Bill Gates is highly interested in the project.

Well, I did say "(billions?)" because I am not sure of how much they rake in ... Saying SETI is privately funded is a bit of a misdirection there ... because while:

• "The Center for SETI Research at the SETI Institute is currently funded entirely by donations from individuals and grants from private foundations" (ibid, welcome.html)

... funding for LITU (part of the SETI Institute) is not solely private:

• LITU Funding
  Nearly all Life in the Universe scientists generate their own funding through outside grants, usually from NASA or the National Science Foundation. The SETI Institute's excellent management and demonstrated ability to minimize overhead thereby maximizing funds available to conduct the actual research has helped the Institute build a strong reputation as an efficient home for researchers. (http://www.seti.org/litu/Welcome.html)

Again, you can scoff all you want and throw out red herrings like SETI all day. You will find poll after poll supports my point: More highly educated people are less likely to believe myths because they have better critical thinking skills.

Er .... you mentioned UFOs ... now you think I threw out "a red herring like SETI"? SETI "people" are scientists ... educated scientists ... like the "more highly educated people" you refer to ...

It wasn't my red herring ...

[Roy]

Today @ 10:18 PM post located here
SherBear:

(http://www.seti.org/litu/Welcome.html)[/list]
Notice the search for extraterrestrial intelligence? Not a far stretch from those that believe in UFOs ...

Yes, that's what SETI stands for (liiterally), in case you hadn't noticed.

But there is a big difference between SETI and the UFOnauts - SETI is looking for extraterrestrial intelligence in extraterrestrial locations, while the UFOnuts are looking for it in Nevada...

Roy

[Sher]

Today @ 06:25 PM post located here
rthearle:

Yes, that's what SETI stands for (liiterally), in case you hadn't noticed.

But there is a big difference between SETI and the UFOnauts - SETI is looking for extraterrestrial intelligence in extraterrestrial locations, while the UFOnuts are looking for it in Nevada...

Roy

Yes .. I believe I made that same point in that post

[Duvenoy]

Um, SETI.

I think it might be a fruitless search. It has yet to be proven that 'intelligence', as we understand it, has any, evolutionary, survival value. We're still the new kids on the block, here. The cockroach saw us come into the enviorment (and immeadatly began to take advantage of us), and it will likely bid us a fond fairwell at the evolutionary exit. There's no reason to asume that 'intelligence' is certain to have evolved elsewhere. And if it has, we might well not recognize it.

UFOs? I saw one, once. A light in the evening sky that I couldn't puzzle out. But I'll bet a year's morgage payments that it was not an alien space craft.

doov