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Immutability of God.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    yeah. it does sound like mormonism, except they believe God is an actual human who was elevated to Godhood on another planet and their are many Gods.
    True. I'm just noting some of the "on-the-face-of-it" similarities.

    Matter however, is eternal in their theology and God did not create it. Just manipulates it.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Doing something does not change the nature of the one doing that something.

      Now if the only nature one has is immutability. There can be no change, no action, it is static. So God's nature is not limited to immutability. There has to be another nature with God. Now how you what to define that is at issue.
      You indicated you are a baptist once. Have you taken your ideas about God's nature to your pastor and see what he thinks?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Doing something does not change the nature of the one doing that something.

        Now if the only nature one has is immutability. There can be no change, no action, it is static. So God's nature is not limited to immutability. There has to be another nature with God. Now how you want to define that is at issue.
        That makes no sense. Is an attribute somehow the entire nature???
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          That makes no sense. Is an attribute somehow the entire nature???
          I could be wrong, but I think he was trying to say "If the only nature one has is immutable", not "if the only nature one has is immutability". It's the only way I can make sense of the sentence.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            yeah. it does sound like mormonism, except they believe God is an actual human who was elevated to Godhood on another planet and their are many Gods. Matter however, is eternal in their theology and God did not create it. Just manipulates it.
            But someone from another planet would be an alien! Even if they look human. Add some superpowers to the mix to!
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
              I could be wrong, but I think he was trying to say "If the only nature one has is immutable", not "if the only nature one has is immutability". It's the only way I can make sense of the sentence.
              No. I think Christianbookworm has it right. Let me re-translate:

              "Doing something does not change the nature of the one doing that something." (what he's saying here is that Jesus doing something in his temporary and/or human nature would not affect his divine nature)

              "Now if the only nature one has is immutability. There can be no change, no action, it is static." (If one only had a divine, ie. immutable nature, one would not be able to change or act. They would be static)

              "So God's nature is not limited to immutability." (So the Son was not/is not strictly immutable)

              "There has to be another nature with God. Now how you want to define that is at issue." (QED, Jesus had a second, non-immutable nature before his incarnation, along side his immutable nature)

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              • #52
                How does being immutable equate to not being able to act? God is omnipotent, meaning He has the ability to actualize any logical possibility He wills to happen. So, can He or can't He act or think?
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                  How does being immutable equate to not being able to act? God is omnipotent, meaning He has the ability to actualize any logical possibility He wills to happen. So, can He or can't He act or think?
                  He believes that only the second member of the trinity, Jesus, had the ability to actualize any logical possibility.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    "Now if the only nature one has is immutability. There can be no change, no action, it is static." (If one only had a divine, ie. immutable nature, one would not be able to change or act. They would be static)
                    That's pretty much what I said.

                    Saying that one's only nature is immutable isn't the same thing as saying that someone's only nature is immutability.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      That's pretty much what I said.

                      Saying that one's only nature is immutable isn't the same thing as saying that someone's only nature is immutability.
                      Ah. Sorry. I misunderstood your phrasing. I think its because you're using the word "nature" in two different ways. In the first way you mean "nature" as in one's essence, and in the second way you mean "nature" as in one's characteristics.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        Ah. Sorry. I misunderstood your phrasing. I think its because you're using the word "nature" in two different ways. In the first way you mean "nature" as in one's essence, and in the second way you mean "nature" as in one's characteristics.
                        Yeah, I could probably have phrased it less ambigiously.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          He believes that only the second member of the trinity, Jesus, had the ability to actualize any logical possibility.
                          What about the Holy Spirit? Does he think the Holy Spirit is Jesus??? That's modalism. So, of the divine attributes(holiness, omnipotent, omniscient, ect.), which do which Persons have?
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            What about the Holy Spirit? Does he think the Holy Spirit is Jesus??? That's modalism. So, of the divine attributes(holiness, omnipotent, omniscient, ect.), which do which Persons have?
                            No. Other than the fact that he has a super-strict concept of immutability, and that he believes that Jesus had two pre-incarnate natures rather than one, his views are more or less orthodox as far as I can tell (although his view on infinity is a bit bizarre in my opinion).

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              No. Other than the fact that he has a super-strict concept of immutability, and that he believes that Jesus had two pre-incarnate natures rather than one, his views are more or less orthodox as far as I can tell (although his view on infinity is a bit bizarre in my opinion).
                              I was just wondering how he explains the Holy Spirit doing stuff like convicting people and performing miracles through the apostles.
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                                I was just wondering how he explains the Holy Spirit doing stuff like convicting people and performing miracles through the apostles.
                                Oh, good point. I have no idea.

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