Impending Minimum Wage hike causing restaurants to close

[Sparko]

I didn't say it was too hard.

If you read context of this in post 418 I said its not that risky, and equipment would pay for itself within 6 months.

Its just time consuming. The equipment is not any heavy lifting or strain. Its not hard.





and the formula didn't force "business owners" to come up with the extra money either. It would come from the customers.

Just like all the other minimum wages hikes where fast food stores increased anyway, and the amount of people eating there increased anyway,

The only difference is this time, the price increase would have only gone to the labor. It was the same effect as if the customers voluntarily tipped, even though its not any more voluntary than all the other times prices have gone up.

....and they still increased in stores and customers.


....and spark again will say my math is wrong even though I showed how it didn't affect the rest of the financial statement and didn't take from the original profit

....nope, not any more than tips would .


I guess it just pisses some people off , the idea that McDonalds etc workers get a raise.
...because they're so undeserving and all.

.

Here is where you math is wrong. You quoted the costs of one average company and said the labor costs were 26%. But having to pay more for items by the consumer means that the people paying the extra "tip" are basically lowering their buying ability, which means in order to keep the standard of living the same, they need to earn more too. Not just the min wage earner but everyone. Which means that the costs of good and materials will go up across the board. So not only did you increase the wage cost, you increased everything that goes into making a product - transportation costs, raw goods, packaging, advertizing, etc. It is a feedback loop. I told you that before.

Also, if it is only a "tip" for the minimum wage worker, all any employer has to do is increase their pay by a nickel and they are no longer minimum wage and they don't get the "tip" and your idea goes down the drain.

And you did complain about how hard it would be to run your own business. What do you think whining about being too busy to care about your workers means? But that is up to you. If you are such a bad owner that you can't take care of your own employees that you claim to really want to help, then again, your idea is nothing but loud talk.

As a business owner, you would have the opportunity to increase your company's income, which would give you more to pay your employees. You could probably even hire a finance person to help make sure that the employees are not forgotten.

Or set up the company as a co-op so all of the employees are owners together. Then you share the costs and profits.

No, instead you just want to sit back on your butt and complain, and expect other people to fix things, and give you money.

[Paprika]

He doesn't really talk that much in the gospels about any expected atoning effects of his death.

This part of the post is right at least. Christians tend to project the Pauline perspective on the four gospels and screen out what they're actually saying.

Wealth & poverty seem to be the major of focus of Jesus' teachings as presented in the gospels in terms of time he spends talking about issues.

The Kingdom of God and Kingdom living are the major foci of Jesus' message. The topics of wealth and poverty naturally form an important part of this but are not the real focus.

[Paprika]

Why do you suppose the Bible advocates cheerful giving vs taking from one, by force, and giving to another?

That's a false dichotomy. Scripture also advocated giving by force, eg the Jubilee laws. Because this is lilpix I suppose I have to spell out that this doesn't imply that all forced giving is good, but it surely means that not all forced giving is bad.

[Bill the Cat]

ok then


"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Karl Marx and others

and the Biblical MODEL

Acts 4:32-37
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.


ok not socialism.

Looks more like the Communism MODEL

No. It sort of communalism with a monarch (God) in control of the communities.

[Cerebrum123]

Hey! That's almost the same as mine!

Well, he's psycho psychic, remember?

[Sparko]

Well, he's psycho psychic, remember?

As one of the owners I have to make sure my password is very secure. Nobody would ever guess that it was just *

[Cerebrum123]

Why are you guys being so mean? Soviets, such as Stalin, only instigated death on massive scales, by doing things such as starving 2.5-7.5 million people to death, so the soviets could steal their land and property from them. If you ignore massive human rights violations, such as that, Socialism is a great thing that leads to wonderful things (at least for the hand full of elites, who hold all the power and wealth).

Don't forget the National Socialists, and how they murdered the disabled, the elderly, and eventually 6 million Jews.

[Cerebrum123]

As one of the owners I have to make sure my password is very secure. Nobody would ever guess that it was just *

R?

[Sparko]

R?

no. *

[jordanriver]

Here is where you math is wrong. You quoted the costs of one average company and said the labor costs were 26%. But having to pay more for items by the consumer means that the people paying the extra "tip" are basically lowering their buying ability, which means in order to keep the standard of living the same, they need to earn more too. Not just the min wage earner but everyone. Which means that the costs of good and materials will go up across the board. So not only did you increase the wage cost, you increased everything that goes into making a product - transportation costs, raw goods, packaging, advertizing, etc. It is a feedback loop. I told you that before.

Also, if it is only a "tip" for the minimum wage worker, all any employer has to do is increase their pay by a nickel and they are no longer minimum wage and they don't get the "tip" and your idea goes down the drain..

No.
You changed the formula.
The formula was not just for the restaurant's minimum wage laborers.

I already posted way back in POST 82 that the 20% price increase shown from POST 43 ($164,251 added to original revenue which was $821,256) adds to the cash that goes to the laborers "...even the cooks who make more than the dishwashers, for example..."

...you aren't the only one who cooked in restaurants.

I was raised in that, I was put to work in the family pizza joint at age 10 (summer between 5th and 6th grade, which I thought was for playing)

And I know your pain, the idea that the dishwasher was going to be making as much as you every time the minimum wage increased, and it took a while for the cooks to catch up.

[Sparko]

No.
You changed the formula.
The formula was not just for the restaurant's minimum wage laborers.

I already posted way back in POST 82 that the 20% price increase shown from POST 43 ($164,251 added to original revenue which was $821,256) adds to the cash that goes to the laborers "...even the cooks who make more than the dishwashers, for example..."

...you aren't the only one who cooked in restaurants.

I was raised in that, I was put to work in the family pizza joint at age 10 (summer between 5th and 6th grade, which I thought was for playing)

And I know your pain, the idea that the dishwasher was going to be making as much as you every time the minimum wage increased, and it took a while for the cooks to catch up.

That might cut out the nickel increase solution, but it still doesn't stop the problem with your math. No matter who you give the forced tip to, it would increase the cost of the product to the consumer. The wage earners are also consumers too. And no matter what, when you increase the cost of goods, that means that the feedback loop has started. In order to pay more for the goods, the consumer needs more money. So they all need a raise, that means more labor costs to the business. Also the expenses and raw materials used in the production of goods (in the case of burgers: bread, beef, vegetables, packaging, advertising, rent, utilities) all go up too because the consumer (in this case the restaurant) has to pay the tip to the other manufacturers workers.

You don't seem to understand anything about economics at all JR.

[Juvenal]

I'm sure JR is a big contributor to TWeb, so be careful how you talk to her. She might stop funding the website!

PS, I just issued you a refund on your tweb donation. Put it to good use and give it to someone who works for you.

This is highly inappropriate. Greens and reds set the culture of this website.

TWeb donations have always been anonymous. Goading people into revealing their contributions runs against the founding spirit of this website.

[Sparko]

This is highly inappropriate. Greens and reds set the culture of this website.

TWeb donations have always been anonymous. Goading people into revealing their contributions runs against the founding spirit of this website.

First of all I was not serious in asking him for a donation. I was trying to make a point.
Second, I never revealed what his donation was. And he was the one who revealed that he made a donation in the first place.
Third, I refunded it because he was telling us how bad he was struggling, I figured he might have felt shamed into donating by my comment.
Fourth, If he really wants to subscribe to tweb, and does so again, I will not stop him. I just didn't want him to feel somehow shamed into donating in the first place.

[jordanriver]

And you did complain about how hard it would be to run your own business. What do you think whining about being too busy to care about your workers means? But that is up to you. If you are such a bad owner that you can't take care of your own employees that you claim to really want to help, then again, your idea is nothing but loud talk.

As a business owner, you would have the opportunity to increase your company's income, which would give you more to pay your employees. You could probably even hire a finance person to help make sure that the employees are not forgotten.

Or set up the company as a co-op so all of the employees are owners together. Then you share the costs and profits.

No, instead you just want to sit back on your butt and complain, and expect other people to fix things, and give you money.

[Sparko]

Well if the other competing businesses really are run by lazy greedy owners who want to line their own pockets, then there should be enough room for you to make competitive bids and pay your workers more since you would not be greedy and willing to share more of the profits. If not, then again, your whole argument fails that business owners are crooks who don't care about their employees.

Also you can make up in volume by getting more customers and that will increase your income to pay the employees more. Or you could convince your customers that your higher prices are worth it because of the quality of your work.