Lack of Enthusiasm

[One Bad Pig]

Show where I have done either. Or the accusation of posting ignorant nonsense applies to your posts.

False dichotomy.

Complaining about "herd mentality" and "individualism" in the same thread.

Complaining about "herd mentality" and raising "individualism" in the same thread.

Can you spot the difference?

[Cerebrum123]

False dichotomy.





Can you spot the difference?

Good catch, I didn't even realize it myself.

[footwasher]

False dichotomy.

Can you spot the difference?

That wasn't my doing. Posting with an Android phone causes artifacts to be added to the post. I never added "raising" to the quote. I am quite aware of the seriousness of altering quotes, so never do it, without giving reasons like snipping for convenience, so that insertion was unintended and a fault of the software.

Anyhow, it doesn't change the meaning of the post. Raising can mean "raising the topic of individualism for criticism". Cerebrum never objected to it, so why should you?

[footwasher]

Sounds like somebody has a problem with authority overall.

Heb 13:17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

I've already explained, deacons and elders worked as administrators, guarded the money and property. They play a significant part in the kingdom of God. Why do you think Jesus taught that after he ascended, disciples had to provision themselves before they went out on mission?


Luke 22:35And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” 36And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37“For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.”


Also:

http://frankviola.org/2012/07/17/christianleadership/

Quote
Good article. The words translated as leader in Hebrews 13:17, 14 and Romans 12:8 are participles which could be translated as “leading ones” or as you said guard that is guarding ones, so we see the emphasis is on the doing not on that of a position.

Robust and coherent, that's what your theology should be.

[One Bad Pig]

That wasn't my doing. Posting with an Android phone causes artifacts to be added to the post. I never added "raising" to the quote. I am quite aware of the seriousness of altering quotes, so never do it, without giving reasons like snipping for convenience, so that insertion was unintended and a fault of the software.

Ok.

Anyhow, it doesn't change the meaning of the post. Raising can mean "raising the topic of individualism for criticism". Cerebrum never objected to it, so why should you?

See here.

[footwasher]

Ok.

See here.

Where he posts.that it never occurred to him. If something doesn't occur to him how can he find it objectionable?

[Cerebrum123]

Where he posts.that it never occurred to him. If something doesn't occur to him how can he find it objectionable?

I told OBP that it was good he caught that. It implies that I object too.

Now, if it really is just a mistake facilitated by your phone, then I don't see a reason to dwell on it.

[One Bad Pig]

Where he posts.that it never occurred to him. If something doesn't occur to him how can he find it objectionable?

If he doesn't notice something, how can he object to it? Are you really that poor at parsing English? As Cerebrum says, this isn't something to dwell on if it was just a mistake.

[Thoughtful Monk]

I made it to church on Easter Sunday. Its a local church I've gone to a few times in the past couple years.

Good points: joint service with another church that shares the building. Music was Christ & Easter centered with no 7-11 songs and led by someone good at leading worship. Good attendance by both congregations with good age mix.

The Ugh: the sermon. The teacher went on about the Feast of First Fruits and how Christ's suffering and Resurrection fulfills that. After going through that, he threw in a few verses like 1 Cor. 15 just to tie it in. You could tell he was much more interested in the prophesy fulfillment than the actual event.

Am I so out-of-line to expect an Easter Sunday sermon with a theme of Christ is Risen let us Rejoice / Give Thanks / Live in Hope / Spread the Good Word, etc.?

At least I went and broke my non-attendance streak.

By the way, I'm posting this to help me think through what is happening and help people understand why a Christian struggles with attending church.

[Cow Poke]

The Ugh: the sermon. The teacher went on about the Feast of First Fruits and how Christ's suffering and Resurrection fulfills that. After going through that, he threw in a few verses like 1 Cor. 15 just to tie it in. You could tell he was much more interested in the prophesy fulfillment than the actual event.

Am I so out-of-line to expect an Easter Sunday sermon with a theme of Christ is Risen let us Rejoice / Give Thanks / Live in Hope / Spread the Good Word, etc.?

Nope.

At least I went and broke my non-attendance streak.

By the way, I'm posting this to help me think through what is happening and help people understand why a Christian struggles with attending church.

One of the things I always like a person to consider is ... rather than focus on what I can get out of Church, think about what you can contribute.

Realizing, of course, that it shouldn't be "work" to attend.

[Thoughtful Monk]

One of the things I always like a person to consider is ... rather than focus on what I can get out of Church, think about what you can contribute.

Realizing, of course, that it shouldn't be "work" to attend.

I intellectually get this but it doesn't match with my experience. I have contributed many things to the churches I've attended. I just don't get nurture, spiritual growth, etc. back. This is a poor analogy but the best I can come up with: its like working for my employer but never getting a pay check.

I don't think the issue is my contributing to a church. I think the issue is my inability to select the right church. Akin to the people who keep marrying the wrong person all the time and never learning. I'm now struggling to understand how I keep picking wrong.

Does that make it clearer? It actually helped me as I've not gotten to the second paragraph before as I thought about the issue.

[Cow Poke]

I intellectually get this but it doesn't match with my experience. I have contributed many things to the churches I've attended. I just don't get nurture, spiritual growth, etc. back. This is a poor analogy but the best I can come up with: its like working for my employer but never getting a pay check.

Because your paycheck, brother, is not of this world. Your treasures are stored up in Heaven.

I don't think the issue is my contributing to a church. I think the issue is my inability to select the right church. Akin to the people who keep marrying the wrong person all the time and never learning. I'm now struggling to understand how I keep picking wrong.

And that can be tough, because Churches are so different - just because, for example, you were a member of a good Baptist Church "back home" doesn't mean that the Baptist Church you stumble into in college will be "good". So much depends on the personality of the pastor, the makeup of the congregation, and other variables.

Does that make it clearer? It actually helped me as I've not gotten to the second paragraph before as I thought about the issue.

[Teallaura]

TM, what is it exactly that you expect? It seems unlikely that no church has ever given you those things. I wonder if it's possible that reality just isn't matching expectation. I have had issues with that myself which is what brings it to mind.

[Thoughtful Monk]

TM, what is it exactly that you expect? It seems unlikely that no church has ever given you those things. I wonder if it's possible that reality just isn't matching expectation. I have had issues with that myself which is what brings it to mind.

Sorry, I didn't mean ever. Its been the last ten years or so since I've had good, consistent church experience.

Two I get reality will never fully match expectations. I know I won't find the perfect church. I'm trying to find a church whose defects I can live with. For example, I'll take a "lesser" worship ministry if I get a good teaching ministry.

It something I would know when I find it. A piece is in the word community. A piece is in the word discipleship (and for me that not equivalent to therapy). A piece is in the word belief - a group people who believe and try to live that out that belief. A piece is the concept of sin and redemption - I know there but for the grace of God go I.

I think this is an area where eventually words will never be able to describe completely or satisfactorily. That is why I need God to guide me where I need to go because I will never find my way myself.

[Thoughtful Monk]

Because your paycheck, brother, is not of this world. Your treasures are stored up in Heaven.

Except a paycheck is not a reward. A paycheck is payment for services rendered. For me, I'm trying to state a mutually beneficial relationship between a church and me, i.e. being part of community.