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Ecclesiology 201 Guidelines
Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
Forum Rules: Here
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Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostFalse dichotomy.
Can you spot the difference?
Anyhow, it doesn't change the meaning of the post. Raising can mean "raising the topic of individualism for criticism". Cerebrum never objected to it, so why should you?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSounds like somebody has a problem with authority overall.
Heb 13:17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
Luke 22:35And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” 36And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37“For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.”
Also:
http://frankviola.org/2012/07/17/christianleadership/
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Good article. The words translated as leader in Hebrews 13:17, 14 and Romans 12:8 are participles which could be translated as “leading ones” or as you said guard that is guarding ones, so we see the emphasis is on the doing not on that of a position.
Robust and coherent, that's what your theology should be.
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Originally posted by footwasher View PostThat wasn't my doing. Posting with an Android phone causes artifacts to be added to the post. I never added "raising" to the quote. I am quite aware of the seriousness of altering quotes, so never do it, without giving reasons like snipping for convenience, so that insertion was unintended and a fault of the software.
Anyhow, it doesn't change the meaning of the post. Raising can mean "raising the topic of individualism for criticism". Cerebrum never objected to it, so why should you?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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If he doesn't notice something, how can he object to it? Are you really that poor at parsing English? As Cerebrum says, this isn't something to dwell on if it was just a mistake.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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I made it to church on Easter Sunday. Its a local church I've gone to a few times in the past couple years.
Good points: joint service with another church that shares the building. Music was Christ & Easter centered with no 7-11 songs and led by someone good at leading worship. Good attendance by both congregations with good age mix.
The Ugh: the sermon. The teacher went on about the Feast of First Fruits and how Christ's suffering and Resurrection fulfills that. After going through that, he threw in a few verses like 1 Cor. 15 just to tie it in. You could tell he was much more interested in the prophesy fulfillment than the actual event.
Am I so out-of-line to expect an Easter Sunday sermon with a theme of Christ is Risen let us Rejoice / Give Thanks / Live in Hope / Spread the Good Word, etc.?
At least I went and broke my non-attendance streak.
By the way, I'm posting this to help me think through what is happening and help people understand why a Christian struggles with attending church."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostThe Ugh: the sermon. The teacher went on about the Feast of First Fruits and how Christ's suffering and Resurrection fulfills that. After going through that, he threw in a few verses like 1 Cor. 15 just to tie it in. You could tell he was much more interested in the prophesy fulfillment than the actual event.
Am I so out-of-line to expect an Easter Sunday sermon with a theme of Christ is Risen let us Rejoice / Give Thanks / Live in Hope / Spread the Good Word, etc.?
At least I went and broke my non-attendance streak.
By the way, I'm posting this to help me think through what is happening and help people understand why a Christian struggles with attending church.
Realizing, of course, that it shouldn't be "work" to attend.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOne of the things I always like a person to consider is ... rather than focus on what I can get out of Church, think about what you can contribute.
Realizing, of course, that it shouldn't be "work" to attend.
I don't think the issue is my contributing to a church. I think the issue is my inability to select the right church. Akin to the people who keep marrying the wrong person all the time and never learning. I'm now struggling to understand how I keep picking wrong.
Does that make it clearer? It actually helped me as I've not gotten to the second paragraph before as I thought about the issue."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI intellectually get this but it doesn't match with my experience. I have contributed many things to the churches I've attended. I just don't get nurture, spiritual growth, etc. back. This is a poor analogy but the best I can come up with: its like working for my employer but never getting a pay check.
I don't think the issue is my contributing to a church. I think the issue is my inability to select the right church. Akin to the people who keep marrying the wrong person all the time and never learning. I'm now struggling to understand how I keep picking wrong.
Does that make it clearer? It actually helped me as I've not gotten to the second paragraph before as I thought about the issue.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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TM, what is it exactly that you expect? It seems unlikely that no church has ever given you those things. I wonder if it's possible that reality just isn't matching expectation. I have had issues with that myself which is what brings it to mind."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostTM, what is it exactly that you expect? It seems unlikely that no church has ever given you those things. I wonder if it's possible that reality just isn't matching expectation. I have had issues with that myself which is what brings it to mind.
Two I get reality will never fully match expectations. I know I won't find the perfect church. I'm trying to find a church whose defects I can live with. For example, I'll take a "lesser" worship ministry if I get a good teaching ministry.
It something I would know when I find it. A piece is in the word community. A piece is in the word discipleship (and for me that not equivalent to therapy). A piece is in the word belief - a group people who believe and try to live that out that belief. A piece is the concept of sin and redemption - I know there but for the grace of God go I.
I think this is an area where eventually words will never be able to describe completely or satisfactorily. That is why I need God to guide me where I need to go because I will never find my way myself."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBecause your paycheck, brother, is not of this world. Your treasures are stored up in Heaven."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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