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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.

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Lack of Enthusiasm

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  • #16
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    As we were talking it became clear that all three of the young men were involved in Life Transformation Groups (LTGs) even though they were at different churches and universities. The boys had no idea that I had been the one who innovated the strategy many years ago. When they found out it was quite a surprise. I love it when that happens.
    So you invented the system you're recomending and you didn't disclose that information in the opening post? That's kinda shady.
    Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
      So you invented the system you're recomending and you didn't disclose that information in the opening post? That's kinda shady.
      No, he didn't invent it (as far as I can tell). It would really, really help, however, if he linked to the post he was quoting rather than the blog's front page. I do find it interesting that the latest post is honoring St. Patrick, who would have disagreed quite sharply with the whole "LTG" idea.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
        Have you tried visiting various churches? Which secondary distinctives if any are you particularly tied to or repelled by?
        Secondary distinctives?? I can't find a church that decently meets my primary requirements.
        • A worship service that focuses on God. This means a praise band that leads worship; not provides a performance.
        • Competent sermons based on the Word of God. Bonus points if the sermons are not always self-help/therapeutic - i.e. 5 Biblical ways to improve your love live doesn't count for me.
        • The Lord's supper is practiced on regular occasions.
        • For my wife, decent fellowship with other ladies of the church.


        Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
        They say non-denominational churches are pretty much Baptists with cooler websites, so you could perhaps find a Baptist church, from what I know they are generally Reformed, and I assume you are because of the whole PC(USA) thing. There could be an Episcopal or Methodist church in your area that is more conservative than the denomination as a whole if you prefer Mainline churches. I know at least three TWebbers who post fairly regularly (myself included) are Assemblies of God members, I have consistently had positive experiences visiting A/G churches that are not my own when I find myself out of town on a Sunday maybe give it a try? Obviously, CP is right, when you find a church you can fit in, even if it's not like a glove, maybe a little too loose or tight, if you forgive the metaphor then you should get involved.
        I come up in the Reformed tradition. Having been in both High and Low worship services, I find High is more likely to consistently connect me with God than Low. I'll have to look at the AOG churches around here.

        Thanks.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
          Secondary distinctives?? I can't find a church that decently meets my primary requirements.
          • A worship service that focuses on God. This means a praise band that leads worship; not provides a performance.
          • Competent sermons based on the Word of God. Bonus points if the sermons are not always self-help/therapeutic - i.e. 5 Biblical ways to improve your love live doesn't count for me.
          • The Lord's supper is practiced on regular occasions.
          • For my wife, decent fellowship with other ladies of the church.
          Truly? That's a disappointment. Which region are you in? I want to pray for it.


          I come up in the Reformed tradition. Having been in both High and Low worship services, I find High is more likely to consistently connect me with God than Low. I'll have to look at the AOG churches around here.

          Thanks.
          God bless brother.
          Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
            Truly? That's a disappointment. Which region are you in? I want to pray for it.


            God bless brother.
            I am in upstate NY. I'm about 5 hours from NYC aka downstate.

            Over the past six months, I have had read a couple articles indicating that Bible-centered, Bible-believing Christianity is disappearing from the whole of the Northeast US. So I don't think this is just my imagination.

            God bless you, brother.
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
              No calling from God and no gifting from God to do so. I have too much respect for the office of pastor to start a church just because I think others are doing wrong.
              Well they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. All that happens when you attend a church with pulpit centred meetings is that you contributed in perpetuating the errors from a system that has no checks and balances.

              As for meeting in small groups and cultivating error, I think this devalues the worth of the follower of Christ and reduces his input to clannish loyalty seen in the red states: "I got your back, bro".

              Christianity has always been known for its ability to nurture individualism, linked as it is with its strong roots in Judaism. Maybe a thinking Christianity will encourage enquiry from the intellectually inclined blue states.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                Well they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. All that happens when you attend a church with pulpit centred meetings is that you contributed in perpetuating the errors from a system that has no checks and balances.

                As for meeting in small groups and cultivating error, I think this devalues the worth of the follower of Christ and reduces his input to clannish loyalty seen in the red states: "I got your back, bro".

                Christianity has always been known for its ability to nurture individualism, linked as it is with its strong roots in Judaism. Maybe a thinking Christianity will encourage enquiry from the intellectually inclined blue states.
                Rom 16:17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Rom 16:17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
                  https://bible.org/seriespage/39-watc...romans-1617-27

                  Quote
                  There is a direct link between a person’s motivation, his message, and his methods. Paul has informed us about the fruit of the wolves who prey upon the saints. He also tells us about the motives and methods of these wolves. We will first consider their motivation and then turn to their methods.

                  The wolves of whom Paul warns are like many drug dealers; they are hooked on the same stuff they peddle to others. Wolves seek to turn Christians from self-denial to self-indulgence, from self-sacrifice to self-service. While Christians should consider themselves slaves to Jesus Christ, these wolves are slaves of their own fleshly appetites. They seek to satisfy their fleshly desires, rather than subordinate them to the cause of the gospel and service to God. Either they were never delivered from their bondage to the flesh or they have returned to it (see Romans 6:15-23; 2 Peter 2 and 3, Jude).

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                    Quote
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                      Well they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. All that happens when you attend a church with pulpit centred meetings is that you contributed in perpetuating the errors from a system that has no checks and balances.

                      As for meeting in small groups and cultivating error, I think this devalues the worth of the follower of Christ and reduces his input to clannish loyalty seen in the red states: "I got your back, bro".

                      Christianity has always been known for its ability to nurture individualism, linked as it is with its strong roots in Judaism. Maybe a thinking Christianity will encourage enquiry from the intellectually inclined blue states.
                      How do you manage to pack so much error into so little space?
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        How do you manage to pack so much error into so little space?
                        He has the gift of convolution.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          How do you manage to pack so much error into so little space?
                          And have you stopped beating your wife!

                          :-)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                            And have you stopped beating your wife!

                            :-)
                            You're right, it wasn't a fair question. On the other hand, I wasn't expecting an answer, the question being rhetorical.

                            I was especially taken aback by the assertion that "Christianity has always been known for its ability to nurture individualism." Is "deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Me" not in your bible or something? Are sheep known for individualism? Christianity began in a collectivist society, as did Judaism, and both remained so.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              I was especially taken aback by the assertion that "Christianity has always been known for its ability to nurture individualism."
                              So much for the entire book of Philippians and all that "be of one mind" stuff.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                You're right, it wasn't a fair question. On the other hand, I wasn't expecting an answer, the question being rhetorical.

                                I was especially taken aback by the assertion that "Christianity has always been known for its ability to nurture individualism." Is "deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Me" not in your bible or something? Are sheep known for individualism? Christianity began in a collectivist society, as did Judaism, and both remained so.
                                This is where you see the herd mentality at work, the desire to preserve the status quo, not rock the boat, unreasoning loyalty to a dominant group's view:

                                Acts 17:5But the Jews, becoming jealous and taking along some wicked men from the market place, formed a mob and set the city in an uproar; and attacking the house of Jason, they were seeking to bring them out to the people. 6When they did not find them, they began dragging Jason and some brethren before the city authorities, shouting, “These men who have upset the world have come here also;


                                This is where you see the fair treatment of a presentation of the truth, because in the sending of Christ, God revealed the hidden truths of the old covenant and provided the Lamb for the sacrifice, as prophesied by Abraham, a fair treatment that manifests the image of God, because in God is manifested all that which is noble, justice, mercy and love:

                                Acts 17:11Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

                                Hear and introspect
                                Listen and reflect
                                Review and check against Scripture

                                Not exactly the herd mentality you assert.

                                That would be the wolf pack at Thessalonika.

                                PS Denying yourself isn't hanging up your brain on the hat rack when you enter the church...
                                Last edited by footwasher; 03-23-2015, 07:22 PM.

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