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How the eastern orthodox attracts its men

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  • #31
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    So Republicans aren't real conservatives. Ok. Does the US have a real conservative party? Maybe the Tea Party?
    Fortunately the TP isn't a real party.
    Not to say that either of the "official" parties are any better, but at least they're not quite so open about their foaming-at-the-mouth extremism.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It's interesting... there used to be a lot of conservative democrats, and liberal republicans, but it seems GENERALLY the democrats are more consistently liberal, and the republicans, as DE said, are less so. There certainly are some conservative republicans, but I try not to use the labels interchangeably.

    If I mean conservatives, I try NOT to use the label "republican", and if I mean liberal, I try NOT to use the label "democrat".

    My Dad is about as conservative as they get (he's 95 now) but was a democrat for the first half of his life, because that was the "God and country" party.
    And it doesn't help that "liberal" or "conservative" don't give much actual information.

    I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but even THOSE labels aren't enough to actually encapsulate my views in their totality, given that there are individual fiscal issues on which I am liberal, and individual social issues on which I am conservative.

    Just goes to show how badly labels fail.
    Last edited by Buzzword; 01-08-2015, 05:25 PM.
    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
    -Adam Hamilton, Seeing Gray in a World of Black and White

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
      And it doesn't help that "liberal" or "conservative" don't give much actual information.

      I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but even THOSE labels aren't enough to actually encapsulate my views in their totality, given that there are individual fiscal issues on which I am liberal, and individual social issues on which I am conservative.

      Just goes to show how badly labels fail.
      Well, yeah, there's that!
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
        The problem is not Paul's choice of military language, given that he was writing to people living in and under the control of a militaristic society but the overemphasis upon it, in both the article and in too many individual congregations in our now non-militaristic (at least in its more enlightened moments) society.

        Especially the implication throughout the article that all men automatically prefer militaristic settings and practices (again, the focus on physical extremity mentioned several times in the OP).
        I still think you're confusing asceticism with militarism. Many (especially monastics) in the Orthodox tradition have gone to extreme lengths (by Protestant standards) of ascetic labors while at the same time being quite pacifistic.
        This in addition to the false dichotomy, or really false opposition, between masculine and feminine which Paprika pointed out, in addition to the implication that male = masculine and female = feminine, at all times, all places and all circumstances.
        If the article is guilty of over-emphasizing the masculine for men, it is in response to the over-feminization of the evangelical church in the USA. It seeks to restore some balance, not create rigid boundaries between masculine and feminine.
        I would contend that many men are not leaving Western churches because the procedure has been "feminized," as much as they are leaving because a greater sense of individuality has gradually pervaded Western congregations (at worst leading to a constant "come to Jesus" orientation in church services with no room for growth, at best leading individual Christians to work out their own salvation and not worry so much about the splinter in their brother's eye), and many heterosexual males prefer a pack-oriented setting in which they can find their place in the pecking order and work from there.
        Individualism and a pack-oriented setting are sort of polar opposites. I'm having difficulty parsing this paragraph.
        Which may explain the increase in male attendants of Eastern Orthodox churches, if those churches are successfully bringing those men into the communal worship experience and giving them a sense of their place within it.

        And more power to them.
        One thing Orthodoxy does well IMO is foster a sense of community. It also helps one to focus on one's own sins.
        Of course, this avoids the overall issue of PEOPLE of all genders abandoning traditional church attendance in record numbers, especially the 18-35 set.
        Obviously needs are not being met across the board and/or believers and seekers are being alienated.
        There are two genders. Individualism is a big reason why people leave, but it also can draw people back. I essentially left church at 18 and came back at 24. And though some denominations in the US are hemorrhaging members, those tend to be the groups trying hardest to be "relevant" to today.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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