I'll ask you once again: find out the whole truth and remain quiet until you do. Talk to the Hovind family - get it straight from the source instead of from vermin like PZ Myers, TalkOrigins or the Infidels websites. Try ONCE to behave as if you had some integrity.
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Kent Hovind: Looks like he'll remain in prison
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Originally posted by Irate Canadian View PostSince when is being punished for your crimes a travesty of justice?
Furthermore, your comment is sophomoric and myopic.
Er, as a Christian, he lied about his credientials... isn't that breaking a commandment?
No, he did not "lie" about his credentials. The simple truth of the matter is that he earned a "degree" that few people in this society place any value on - that's all that can be said.
Wow, er, do you have any proof for your assertions?
Er, as a family member, wouldn't they be giving a equally biased account of what happened?
John
Jorge
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Hovind worked very, very hard at getting the book thrown at him. While most folks convicted of tax fraud don't get handed a 10 year sentence, few have done the things that Hovind did.
As noted in the OP, "Hovind was convicted of 58 counts of tax evasion and 'corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws' (all charges)." Most get convicted of nowhere near that amount.
Moreover, the second part of Hovind's conviction, the "corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws" constituted the making of threats of harm to the investigators as well as to those who might consider cooperating with the investigation, filing false complaints against the IRS agents investigating him along with filing a false criminal complaint against IRS special agents (criminal investigators). This pushes it well beyond the bounds of just tax evasion.
Finally, by all accounts, including a few that were sympathetic to Hovind, he tried to turn the court proceedings into a circus. If you want leniency from a judge that is one of the more ill-advised courses of action to take.
Having said that there is one thing that bothered me about Hovind's treatment. It wasn't his conviction or the sentence which as I noted he worked very hard at earning. It is the fact that he got moved to Supermax a couple years ago. While it is abundantly clear that Hovind was less that a model prisoner and kept violating various rules he doesn't seem to qualify for being sent to Supermax.
As Wikipedia explains
Is there anyone who seriously thinks Hovind qualifies for that description? That he is one who poses "the highest security risks in the prison system" and is "a threat to national and international security"? Really?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostJorge, speaking as a YEC, I am of the opinion that over the years Hovind has probably done more to discredit the YEC position than any skeptic has.
The majority of his arguments feature on CMI's "Do Not Use These Arguments" list.
http://creation.com/arguments-we-thi...should-not-use
http://creation.com/moving-forward
http://creation.com/maintaining-crea...to-kent-hovind
His "doctorate" is completely bogus, and not worth the paper it is printed on.
By the way, I have videos of over three dozen of his debates where he went against "REAL" PhDs and he absolutely demolished them! I mean, it wasn't even a contest (in some case I found myself feeling sorry for his opposition). In one that I vaguely remember, this female PhD was being trounced so bad that, out of nowhere, she said, "Well, at least I pay my taxes." They were discussing EVOLUTION but she was being embarrassed to the point that she felt she had to 'win' on something. My point is that -- granting the premise that Kent's "degree" is bogus -- the many PhD's that he plastered during debates should be absolutely ashamed of themselves (but, of course, they aren't). Many of those same people probably rejoiced when Kent was locked away.
He insists on using the work of Ron Wyatt (which has been thoroughly discredited by CMI researchers).
He broke the law on tax grounds (actively knowing what he was doing).
He pushed whacky theories about the American social security programme and gave advice to people that I understand would be against the law.
As for giving advice that is "against the law" : whose "law" and which "laws" are you speaking of? Speaking out against unjust or amoral "laws" is a sign of courage - something that we should admire, not reject. To wit: the right to have an abortion is "law". So, when Kent Hovind gave advice against that law, was he committing a criminal act? Apply that principle to other areas and you'll get my meaning.
Jorge
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostHovind worked very, very hard at getting the book thrown at him. While most folks convicted of tax fraud don't get handed a 10 year sentence, few have done the things that Hovind did.
As noted in the OP, "Hovind was convicted of 58 counts of tax evasion and 'corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws' (all charges)." Most get convicted of nowhere near that amount.
Moreover, the second part of Hovind's conviction, the "corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws" constituted the making of threats of harm to the investigators as well as to those who might consider cooperating with the investigation, filing false complaints against the IRS agents investigating him along with filing a false criminal complaint against IRS special agents (criminal investigators). This pushes it well beyond the bounds of just tax evasion.
Finally, by all accounts, including a few that were sympathetic to Hovind, he tried to turn the court proceedings into a circus. If you want leniency from a judge that is one of the more ill-advised courses of action to take.
Having said that there is one thing that bothered me about Hovind's treatment. It wasn't his conviction or the sentence which as I noted he worked very hard at earning. It is the fact that he got moved to Supermax a couple years ago. While it is abundantly clear that Hovind was less that a model prisoner and kept violating various rules he doesn't seem to qualify for being sent to Supermax.
As Wikipedia explains
Is there anyone who seriously thinks Hovind qualifies for that description? That he is one who poses "the highest security risks in the prison system" and is "a threat to national and international security"? Really?
Towards the end of your post your conscience seems to be tugging a bit at you. Forget "Supermax" or whatever, the gravest injustice was committed against Kent Hovind. He is a "religious-political" prisoner - plain and simple. Or have you forgotten -- after it was finally made public knowledge -- that the IRS has been and is being used as a terror-weapon against anyone that the government deems a "threat"? The only reason that you or I aren't being targeted by the IRS goons is because we pose no threat to them. Any more of these posts and that may change so I'm done here.
Jorge
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostYou don't have all the facts (not even close!) but I suspect that even if you did you'd STILL launch your vile, relentless attacks against Hovind because he chaps your ideological hide.
Towards the end of your post your conscience seems to be tugging a bit at you. Forget "Supermax" or whatever, the gravest injustice was committed against Kent Hovind. He is a "religious-political" prisoner - plain and simple. Or have you forgotten -- after it was finally made public knowledge -- that the IRS has been and is being used as a terror-weapon against anyone that the government deems a "threat"? The only reason that you or I aren't being targeted by the IRS goons is because we pose no threat to them. Any more of these posts and that may change so I'm done here.
Jorge
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThere have definitely been problems with the IRS being used for political purposes during the current Administration but Hovind was convicted and sentenced well before they took office. At the time this took place the president was likely the most sympathetic one toward Hovind's beliefs of any that we've had in at least 50 years.
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostYou don't have all the facts (not even close!) but I suspect that even if you did you'd STILL launch your vile, relentless attacks against Hovind because he chaps your ideological hide.
Towards the end of your post your conscience seems to be tugging a bit at you. Forget "Supermax" or whatever, the gravest injustice was committed against Kent Hovind. He is a "religious-political" prisoner - plain and simple. Or have you forgotten -- after it was finally made public knowledge -- that the IRS has been and is being used as a terror-weapon against anyone that the government deems a "threat"? The only reason that you or I aren't being targeted by the IRS goons is because we pose no threat to them. Any more of these posts and that may change so I'm done here.
Jorge"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Was Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?
I noticed AIG cleaned out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though.Last edited by Yttrium; 03-30-2015, 07:49 PM.Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostWas Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?
I noticed AIG clean out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostWas Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?
I noticed AIG cleaned out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though.Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAs I recall, yeah he was and they likely are trying to clean their hands from him.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI don't think it was him, but if it was they would have been written after CMI split off, because before then, they were fairly critical of Hovind (and CMI still are)Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostWas Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?
I noticed AIG cleaned out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though.
Short spine
In this mutant, the entire backbone of the dog is shortened, but the legs and skull are normal. Such mutations kill most dogs, with an interesting exception being the female Baboon dog. The male Baboon dog dies before reaching maturity, so it should be obvious that this breed has not got much going for it.
"The male Baboon dog dies before reaching maturity" sorta means they won't be able to reproduce. Many people have asked AiG to support that claim -- including a couple YECs (as if there could be any support for the existence of a dog species where the males die before sexual maturity) but it remains unsupported and unchanged since the article was published in 1981 -- 34 years ago.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostJust a note: nobody is vermin, neither Hovind, his prosecutors nor commentators.
Sadly, there are indeed human "vermin" in this world.
They may look like people, but they're vermin.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Jorge
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThere have definitely been problems with the IRS being used for political purposes during the current Administration but Hovind was convicted and sentenced well before they took office. At the time this took place the president was likely the most sympathetic one toward Hovind's beliefs of any that we've had in at least 50 years.
Jorge
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