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Kent Hovind: Looks like he'll remain in prison

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  • #16
    I'll ask you once again: find out the whole truth and remain quiet until you do. Talk to the Hovind family - get it straight from the source instead of from vermin like PZ Myers, TalkOrigins or the Infidels websites. Try ONCE to behave as if you had some integrity.
    Just a note: nobody is vermin, neither Hovind, his prosecutors nor commentators.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
      Since when is being punished for your crimes a travesty of justice?
      You don't know what you're talking about, IC.
      Furthermore, your comment is sophomoric and myopic.


      Er, as a Christian, he lied about his credientials... isn't that breaking a commandment?
      WOW ... here we go again!

      No, he did not "lie" about his credentials. The simple truth of the matter is that he earned a "degree" that few people in this society place any value on - that's all that can be said.



      Wow, er, do you have any proof for your assertions?

      Er, as a family member, wouldn't they be giving a equally biased account of what happened?

      John
      I have all the proof that I need - and then some. I would not discuss this topic on the internet. As for the family members: that would depend on the integrity of the people, wouldn't you think? Besides, the facts (going back to well before the trial that put him in prison) are clear enough. Those facts paint a picture of persecution and malfeasance on the part of the authorities. All of that came as no surprise to me. I remember mentioning to Hovind that "one day they will find a way to "get you" even if they have to fabricate the charges". That was precisely what happened! So I strongly suggest that you be wise enough to remain silent until you know what the whole story is.

      Jorge

      Comment


      • #18
        Hovind worked very, very hard at getting the book thrown at him. While most folks convicted of tax fraud don't get handed a 10 year sentence, few have done the things that Hovind did.

        As noted in the OP, "Hovind was convicted of 58 counts of tax evasion and 'corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws' (all charges)." Most get convicted of nowhere near that amount.

        Moreover, the second part of Hovind's conviction, the "corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws" constituted the making of threats of harm to the investigators as well as to those who might consider cooperating with the investigation, filing false complaints against the IRS agents investigating him along with filing a false criminal complaint against IRS special agents (criminal investigators). This pushes it well beyond the bounds of just tax evasion.

        Finally, by all accounts, including a few that were sympathetic to Hovind, he tried to turn the court proceedings into a circus. If you want leniency from a judge that is one of the more ill-advised courses of action to take.

        Having said that there is one thing that bothered me about Hovind's treatment. It wasn't his conviction or the sentence which as I noted he worked very hard at earning. It is the fact that he got moved to Supermax a couple years ago. While it is abundantly clear that Hovind was less that a model prisoner and kept violating various rules he doesn't seem to qualify for being sent to Supermax.

        As Wikipedia explains

        Source: Supermax prison


        The objective is to provide long term, segregated housing for inmates classified as the highest security risks in the prison system—the "worst of the worst" criminals, and those who pose a threat to national and international security.


        Source

        © Copyright Original Source



        Is there anyone who seriously thinks Hovind qualifies for that description? That he is one who poses "the highest security risks in the prison system" and is "a threat to national and international security"? Really?

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
          Jorge, speaking as a YEC, I am of the opinion that over the years Hovind has probably done more to discredit the YEC position than any skeptic has.
          I am sorry to hear you say that. I wish you had known Kent as well as I did in which case I'm confident that you wouldn't hold that opinion. Kent was/is hated by non-YECs because of his bold and uncompromising attitude. Those that knew him well loved and respected him because of that attitude.

          I'll just say this: hopefully Kent will "soon" be released from prison (although I fear that the criminals-in-charge may find ways to keep him locked up indefinitely) and, if he is freed, then ASK HIM DIRECTLY (as others did) to respond to what you're bringing up. I think you'll be satisfied with his answers.

          His "doctorate" is completely bogus, and not worth the paper it is printed on.
          The "bogus-ness" of his "doctorate" is a matter of opinion. I, however, look at a man's WORK, not at the letters after his name. I would have to say that in this society his "degree" is definitely "bogus". Kent was aware of this and so he openly stated many times (I have him on video) that if you regarded his "degree" as worthless then that was fine, just stick to the main issues (Creation vs. Evolution, etc.). He was not ever offended if you called him "Mr." or "Hey you" or whatever.

          By the way, I have videos of over three dozen of his debates where he went against "REAL" PhDs and he absolutely demolished them! I mean, it wasn't even a contest (in some case I found myself feeling sorry for his opposition). In one that I vaguely remember, this female PhD was being trounced so bad that, out of nowhere, she said, "Well, at least I pay my taxes." They were discussing EVOLUTION but she was being embarrassed to the point that she felt she had to 'win' on something. My point is that -- granting the premise that Kent's "degree" is bogus -- the many PhD's that he plastered during debates should be absolutely ashamed of themselves (but, of course, they aren't). Many of those same people probably rejoiced when Kent was locked away.

          He insists on using the work of Ron Wyatt (which has been thoroughly discredited by CMI researchers).
          Again, speak with him on the subject.


          He broke the law on tax grounds (actively knowing what he was doing).
          Don't even go there ... I would bet one of my two last nickels that you don't know the whole story (that's without getting into other unmentionable facts and topics).

          He pushed whacky theories about the American social security programme and gave advice to people that I understand would be against the law.
          From the tone and words I would bet my last remaining nickel that you are one of the vast majority of folks unaware of many things regarding the tax system, government and government programs. Again, I'm not getting into this here (sorry about that). Let me suggest that as a start you go into YouTube and do some research on these and related topics.

          As for giving advice that is "against the law" : whose "law" and which "laws" are you speaking of? Speaking out against unjust or amoral "laws" is a sign of courage - something that we should admire, not reject. To wit: the right to have an abortion is "law". So, when Kent Hovind gave advice against that law, was he committing a criminal act? Apply that principle to other areas and you'll get my meaning.

          Jorge

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Hovind worked very, very hard at getting the book thrown at him. While most folks convicted of tax fraud don't get handed a 10 year sentence, few have done the things that Hovind did.

            As noted in the OP, "Hovind was convicted of 58 counts of tax evasion and 'corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws' (all charges)." Most get convicted of nowhere near that amount.

            Moreover, the second part of Hovind's conviction, the "corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws" constituted the making of threats of harm to the investigators as well as to those who might consider cooperating with the investigation, filing false complaints against the IRS agents investigating him along with filing a false criminal complaint against IRS special agents (criminal investigators). This pushes it well beyond the bounds of just tax evasion.

            Finally, by all accounts, including a few that were sympathetic to Hovind, he tried to turn the court proceedings into a circus. If you want leniency from a judge that is one of the more ill-advised courses of action to take.

            Having said that there is one thing that bothered me about Hovind's treatment. It wasn't his conviction or the sentence which as I noted he worked very hard at earning. It is the fact that he got moved to Supermax a couple years ago. While it is abundantly clear that Hovind was less that a model prisoner and kept violating various rules he doesn't seem to qualify for being sent to Supermax.

            As Wikipedia explains

            Source: Supermax prison


            The objective is to provide long term, segregated housing for inmates classified as the highest security risks in the prison system—the "worst of the worst" criminals, and those who pose a threat to national and international security.


            Source

            © Copyright Original Source



            Is there anyone who seriously thinks Hovind qualifies for that description? That he is one who poses "the highest security risks in the prison system" and is "a threat to national and international security"? Really?
            You don't have all the facts (not even close!) but I suspect that even if you did you'd STILL launch your vile, relentless attacks against Hovind because he chaps your ideological hide.

            Towards the end of your post your conscience seems to be tugging a bit at you. Forget "Supermax" or whatever, the gravest injustice was committed against Kent Hovind. He is a "religious-political" prisoner - plain and simple. Or have you forgotten -- after it was finally made public knowledge -- that the IRS has been and is being used as a terror-weapon against anyone that the government deems a "threat"? The only reason that you or I aren't being targeted by the IRS goons is because we pose no threat to them. Any more of these posts and that may change so I'm done here.

            Jorge

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
              You don't have all the facts (not even close!) but I suspect that even if you did you'd STILL launch your vile, relentless attacks against Hovind because he chaps your ideological hide.

              Towards the end of your post your conscience seems to be tugging a bit at you. Forget "Supermax" or whatever, the gravest injustice was committed against Kent Hovind. He is a "religious-political" prisoner - plain and simple. Or have you forgotten -- after it was finally made public knowledge -- that the IRS has been and is being used as a terror-weapon against anyone that the government deems a "threat"? The only reason that you or I aren't being targeted by the IRS goons is because we pose no threat to them. Any more of these posts and that may change so I'm done here.

              Jorge
              There have definitely been problems with the IRS being used for political purposes during the current Administration but Hovind was convicted and sentenced well before they took office. At the time this took place the president was likely the most sympathetic one toward Hovind's beliefs of any that we've had in at least 50 years.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                There have definitely been problems with the IRS being used for political purposes during the current Administration but Hovind was convicted and sentenced well before they took office. At the time this took place the president was likely the most sympathetic one toward Hovind's beliefs of any that we've had in at least 50 years.
                A bit of fact getting in the way of one of Jorge's rants.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                  You don't have all the facts (not even close!) but I suspect that even if you did you'd STILL launch your vile, relentless attacks against Hovind because he chaps your ideological hide.

                  Towards the end of your post your conscience seems to be tugging a bit at you. Forget "Supermax" or whatever, the gravest injustice was committed against Kent Hovind. He is a "religious-political" prisoner - plain and simple. Or have you forgotten -- after it was finally made public knowledge -- that the IRS has been and is being used as a terror-weapon against anyone that the government deems a "threat"? The only reason that you or I aren't being targeted by the IRS goons is because we pose no threat to them. Any more of these posts and that may change so I'm done here.

                  Jorge
                  Is the charges against him true or false Jorge? I see you using conspiracy theories, of some sort of targeting of YEC's, but what reason does the federal government have to actively target YEC's to start with?
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Was Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?

                    I noticed AIG cleaned out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though.
                    Last edited by Yttrium; 03-30-2015, 07:49 PM.
                    Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                      Was Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?

                      I noticed AIG clean out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though.
                      As I recall, yeah he was and they likely are trying to clean their hands from him.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                        Was Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?

                        I noticed AIG cleaned out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though.
                        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        As I recall, yeah he was and they likely are trying to clean their hands from him.
                        I don't think it was him, but if it was they would have been written after CMI split off, because before then, they were fairly critical of Hovind (and CMI still are)
                        Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                        1 Corinthians 16:13

                        "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                        -Ben Witherington III

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                          I don't think it was him, but if it was they would have been written after CMI split off, because before then, they were fairly critical of Hovind (and CMI still are)
                          On further review, it looks like I was thinking of Henry Morris.
                          Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                            Was Hovind the one who wrote the amazingly bad articles on thermodynamics vs evolution that used to be on AIG?

                            I noticed AIG cleaned out a lot of those smelly old articles. A nice improvement. That's not saying much, though.
                            They still have plenty of mind-numbingly bad stinkers. For instance, in the article Is Your Dog Some Kind of Degenerate Mutant? this bit:

                            Short spine

                            In this mutant, the entire backbone of the dog is shortened, but the legs and skull are normal. Such mutations kill most dogs, with an interesting exception being the female Baboon dog. The male Baboon dog dies before reaching maturity, so it should be obvious that this breed has not got much going for it.

                            "The male Baboon dog dies before reaching maturity" sorta means they won't be able to reproduce. Many people have asked AiG to support that claim -- including a couple YECs (as if there could be any support for the existence of a dog species where the males die before sexual maturity) but it remains unsupported and unchanged since the article was published in 1981 -- 34 years ago.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                              Just a note: nobody is vermin, neither Hovind, his prosecutors nor commentators.
                              Ever heard of a "figure of speech" or "figurative language"?

                              Sadly, there are indeed human "vermin" in this world.
                              They may look like people, but they're vermin.
                              By their fruits ye shall know them.

                              Jorge

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                There have definitely been problems with the IRS being used for political purposes during the current Administration but Hovind was convicted and sentenced well before they took office. At the time this took place the president was likely the most sympathetic one toward Hovind's beliefs of any that we've had in at least 50 years.
                                You are one hopeless dude, Dude!

                                Jorge

                                Comment

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