Suicide prevention

[luv1another]

guys I thought this would be a useful thing to have... there are people around you that have thought and are thinking of taking their life.
learn the signs and be willing to reach out to those people. Most times they wont reach out to you. some links are at the bottom of the page

Fast Facts
• More people die from suicide than from homicide.
• Suicide rates among the elderly are highest for those who are divorced or widowed.
• For young people 15-24 years old, suicide is the third leading cause of death.
• 80% of people that seek treatment for depression are treated successfully.

News: http://www.save.org/prevention/friends_depression.html

Know The Symptoms Of Depression

Your friend might have only a few of the symptoms of depression listed below or he might have many symptoms. Everyone is different. There is no set number of boxes that, once checked, signal depression for sure. If any of the following are particularly bothersome or interfere with life, a person should get help. Can you imagine your friend saying these things?

* I feel sad.
* I feel like crying a lot.
* I’m bored.
* I feel alone.
* I don't really feel sad, just "empty".
* I don't have confidence in myself.
* I don't like myself.
* I often feel scared, but I don't know why.
* I feel mad, like I could just explode!
* I feel guilty
* I can't concentrate.
* I have a hard time remembering things.
* I don't want to make decisions - its too much work.
* I feel like I'm in a fog.
* I’m so tired, no matter how much I sleep.
* I’m frustrated with everything and everybody.
* I don’t have fun anymore.
* I feel helpless.
* I’m always getting into trouble.
* I’m restless and jittery. I can’t sit still
* I feel nervous.
* I feel disorganized, like my head is spinning.
* I feel self-conscious.
* I can’t think straight. My brain doesn’t seem to work.
* I feel ugly.
* I don’t feel like talking anymore – I just don’t have anything to say.
* I feel my life has no direction.
* I feel life isn’t worth living.
* I consume alcohol/take drugs regularly.
* My whole body feels slowed down – my speech, my walk, and my movements.
* I don’t want to go out with friends anymore.
* I don’t feel like taking care of my appearance.
* Occasionally, my heart pounds, I can’t catch my breath, and I feel tingly. My vision feels strange and I feel I might pass out. The feeling passes in seconds, but I’m afraid it will happen again.
* Sometimes I feel like I'm losing it.
* I feel "different" from everyone else.
* I smile, but inside I'm miserable.
* I have difficulty falling asleep or I awaken between 1 A.M. and 5 A.M. and then I can't get back to sleep.
* My appetite has diminished - food tastes so bland.
* My appetite has increased - I feel I could eat all the time.
* My weight has increased/decreased.
* I have headaches.
* I have stomachaches.
* My arms and legs hurt.
* I feel nauseous.
* I'm dizzy.
* Sometimes my vision seems blurred or slow
* I'm clumsy.
* My neck hurts.

Know The Danger Signs Of Suicide

Your friend may have symptoms of depression, but not be suicidal. It is always important to watch for danger signs of suicide though, just in case your friend might be having suicidal thoughts. Have you noticed any of these warning signs of suicide in your friend?

* Talking, reading, or writing about suicide or death.
* Talking about feeling worthless or helpless.
* Saying things like, “I’m going to kill myself,” “I wish I were dead,” or “I shouldn’t have been born.”
* Visiting or calling people to say goodbye.
* Giving things away or returning borrowed items.
* Organizing or cleaning bedroom “for the last time.”
* Self-destructive behavior like self-cutting, or other “risk-taking” behaviors.
* Obsessed with death, violence and guns or knives.
* Previous suicidal thoughts or suicide attempts.

If you see any of these danger signs in your friend, get help immediately.

Know What to Do

There is a direct link between depression and suicide. Every year in the United States, more than 2,000 teenagers die by suicide.

Take Suicide Seriously

* The statement, “People who talk about suicide, won’t really do it,” is false!
* If your friend makes comments like, “I wish I were dead,” or “It doesn’t matter, I won’t be around much longer,” or “Everyone would be better off without me,” it may signal that he is thinking about suicide.

Never Keep Suicide a Secret

* It’s okay to ask your friend, “Have you ever felt so badly that you’ve thought of suicide?” Asking the question won’t plant the idea in a person’s mind.
* If you suspect a friend has been thinking of suicide, tell a responsible adult, someone who will listen, take you seriously, and take action to get your friend help.
* If the first adult you go to doesn’t feel there is cause for concern, keep going until you find someone who takes you seriously. This is an act of true friendship. A suicidal threat, even if said jokingly, should always be taken seriously.

Offer to Help

* Listen carefully, don’t judge, and focus on the behaviors that concern you.
* Reassure your friend that there is help and that suicidal thoughts are only temporary
* Offer to go with your friend to his or her parents, counselor or doctor.
* You can say things like, “I can tell you’re really hurting,” or “I care about you and will do my best to help.” Tell him or her, “It’s okay, it isn’t your fault.” A supportive friend can mean so much to someone who is in pain.

for more go HERE

© source where applicable

Handling a call from a suicidal person
# Be yourself. “The right words” are unimportant. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it.

# Listen. Let the person unload despair, ventilate anger. If given an opportunity to do this, he or she will feel better by the end of the call. No matter how negative the call seems, the fact that it exists is a positive sign, a cry for help.

# Be sympathetic, non-judgmental, patient, calm, accepting. The caller has done the right thing by getting in touch with another person.

# If the caller is saying “I’m so depressed, I can’t go on,” ask The Question: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?” You are not putting ideas in his head, you are doing a good thing for him. You are showing him that you are concerned, that you take him seriously, that it is OK for him to share his pain with you.

# If the answer is yes, you can begin asking a series of further questions: Have you thought about how you would do it (PLAN); Have you got what you need (MEANS); Have you thought about when you would do it (TIME SET). 95% of all suicidal callers will answer no at some point in this series or indicate that the time is set for some date in the future. This will be a relief for both of you.

# Simply talking about their problems for a length of time will give suicidal people relief from loneliness and pent up feelings, awareness that another person cares, and a feeling of being understood. They also get tired -- their body chemistry changes. These things take the edge off their agitated state and help them get through a bad night.

# Avoid arguments, problem solving, advice giving, quick referrals, belittling and making the caller feel that has to justify his suicidal feelings. It is not how bad the problem is, but how badly it’s hurting the person who has it.

# If the person is ingesting drugs, get the details (what, how much, alcohol, other medications, last meal, general health) and call Poison Control at _______________. A shift partner can call while you continue to talk to the person, or you can get the caller’s permission and do it yourself on another phone while the caller listens to your side of the conversation. If Poison Control recommends immediate medical assistance, ask if the caller has a nearby relative, friend, or neighbor who can assist with transportation or the ambulance. In a few cases the person will initially refuse needed medical assistance. Remember that the call is still a cry for help and stay with him in a sympathetic and non-judgmental way. Ask for his address and phone number in case he changes his mind. (Call the number to make sure it’s busy.) If your organization does not trace calls, be sure to tell him that.

# Do not go it alone. Get help during the call and debrief afterwards.

# Your caller may be concerned about someone else who is suicidal. Just listen, reassure him that he is doing the right thing by taking the situation seriously, and sympathize with his stressful situation. With some support, many third parties will work out reasonable courses of action on their own. In the rare case where the third party is really a first party, just listening will enable you to move toward his problems. You can ask, “Have you ever been in a situation where you had thoughts of suicide?”

Taken from HERE

News: http://www.afsp.org/research/articles/malone.html

Serotonin and the Suicidal Brain
Kevin Malone, M.D. and J. John Mann, M.D.

Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death in the United States and is among the three leading causes of death for those aged 15 to 34 years. For every person in the U.S. who dies by suicide, 10 people attempt suicide but survive. Suicide attempts are the most serious complication of Major Depressive Disorder, and, in up to forty percent of cases, attempts precede completed suicide.

Recent studies in Finland and England suggest that, while Major Depression is a recognizable and treatable disorder, only a small fraction of suicides with Major Depression received adequate antidepressant treatment prior to their deaths. Data from our own studies confirms that most depressed suicide attempters receive inadequate antidepressant treatment. Clinicians cannot easily predict which patients with Major Depression will attempt suicide and which depressives will not. This difficulty also perplexes and demoralizes the families of depressed, suicidal patients that must deal with the consequences of suicidal thoughts and actions.

Dr. John Mann directs the Federally-funded Mental Health Clinical Research Center for the Study of Suicidal Behavior, which was established in 1989. Located at the New York State Psychiatric Institute/Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center, the Research Center is uniquely dedicated to conducting suicide research across the life cycle in order to better understand the behavioral, biological, and genetic mechanisms underlying suicidal behavior.

for more go HERE

© source where applicable

some links to pages that can help you know more about suicide and prevention...

SAVE

suicide and suicide prevention

goldfields suicide prevention west aust

AFSP

reach out Australia

beyond blue australia

SPAN USA

American Association of suicidology

if you know any good sites or have a story to share please do so in this thread.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I have some questions.

What do you think about the culture that now seems to tell us that death is sometimes the best option? Suicide just doesn't seem to have the taboo or "wrongness" about it that it once did. After all, it is my body (to use a phrase, not speaking personally) why isn't it my choice? How do we answer that pervasive mentality?

Also I know that many people who are having these thoughts just don't want interference. They would tell a friend, but they don't want that friend telling anyone else? What about those situations?

[semmie'ssister]

guys I thought this would be a useful thing to have... there are people around you that have thought and are thinking of taking their life.
learn the signs and be willing to reach out to those people. Most times they wont reach out to you. some links are at the bottom of the page

Fast Facts
• More people die from suicide than from homicide.
• Suicide rates among the elderly are highest for those who are divorced or widowed.
• For young people 15-24 years old, suicide is the third leading cause of death.
• 80% of people that seek treatment for depression are treated successfully.

News: http://www.save.org/prevention/friends_depression.html

Know The Symptoms Of Depression

Your friend might have only a few of the symptoms of depression listed below or he might have many symptoms. Everyone is different. There is no set number of boxes that, once checked, signal depression for sure. If any of the following are particularly bothersome or interfere with life, a person should get help. Can you imagine your friend saying these things?

* I feel sad.
* I feel like crying a lot.
* I’m bored.
* I feel alone.
* I don't really feel sad, just "empty".
* I don't have confidence in myself.
* I don't like myself.
* I often feel scared, but I don't know why.
* I feel mad, like I could just explode!
* I feel guilty
* I can't concentrate.
* I have a hard time remembering things.
* I don't want to make decisions - its too much work.
* I feel like I'm in a fog.
* I’m so tired, no matter how much I sleep.
* I’m frustrated with everything and everybody.
* I don’t have fun anymore.
* I feel helpless.
* I’m always getting into trouble.
* I’m restless and jittery. I can’t sit still
* I feel nervous.
* I feel disorganized, like my head is spinning.
* I feel self-conscious.
* I can’t think straight. My brain doesn’t seem to work.
* I feel ugly.
* I don’t feel like talking anymore – I just don’t have anything to say.
* I feel my life has no direction.
* I feel life isn’t worth living.
* I consume alcohol/take drugs regularly.
* My whole body feels slowed down – my speech, my walk, and my movements.
* I don’t want to go out with friends anymore.
* I don’t feel like taking care of my appearance.
* Occasionally, my heart pounds, I can’t catch my breath, and I feel tingly. My vision feels strange and I feel I might pass out. The feeling passes in seconds, but I’m afraid it will happen again.
* Sometimes I feel like I'm losing it.
* I feel "different" from everyone else.
* I smile, but inside I'm miserable.
* I have difficulty falling asleep or I awaken between 1 A.M. and 5 A.M. and then I can't get back to sleep.
* My appetite has diminished - food tastes so bland.
* My appetite has increased - I feel I could eat all the time.
* My weight has increased/decreased.
* I have headaches.
* I have stomachaches.
* My arms and legs hurt.
* I feel nauseous.
* I'm dizzy.
* Sometimes my vision seems blurred or slow
* I'm clumsy.
* My neck hurts.

Know The Danger Signs Of Suicide

Your friend may have symptoms of depression, but not be suicidal. It is always important to watch for danger signs of suicide though, just in case your friend might be having suicidal thoughts. Have you noticed any of these warning signs of suicide in your friend?

* Talking, reading, or writing about suicide or death.
* Talking about feeling worthless or helpless.
* Saying things like, “I’m going to kill myself,” “I wish I were dead,” or “I shouldn’t have been born.”
* Visiting or calling people to say goodbye.
* Giving things away or returning borrowed items.
* Organizing or cleaning bedroom “for the last time.”
* Self-destructive behavior like self-cutting, or other “risk-taking” behaviors.
* Obsessed with death, violence and guns or knives.
* Previous suicidal thoughts or suicide attempts.

If you see any of these danger signs in your friend, get help immediately.

Know What to Do

There is a direct link between depression and suicide. Every year in the United States, more than 2,000 teenagers die by suicide.

Take Suicide Seriously

* The statement, “People who talk about suicide, won’t really do it,” is false!
* If your friend makes comments like, “I wish I were dead,” or “It doesn’t matter, I won’t be around much longer,” or “Everyone would be better off without me,” it may signal that he is thinking about suicide.

Never Keep Suicide a Secret

* It’s okay to ask your friend, “Have you ever felt so badly that you’ve thought of suicide?” Asking the question won’t plant the idea in a person’s mind.
* If you suspect a friend has been thinking of suicide, tell a responsible adult, someone who will listen, take you seriously, and take action to get your friend help.
* If the first adult you go to doesn’t feel there is cause for concern, keep going until you find someone who takes you seriously. This is an act of true friendship. A suicidal threat, even if said jokingly, should always be taken seriously.

Offer to Help

* Listen carefully, don’t judge, and focus on the behaviors that concern you.
* Reassure your friend that there is help and that suicidal thoughts are only temporary
* Offer to go with your friend to his or her parents, counselor or doctor.
* You can say things like, “I can tell you’re really hurting,” or “I care about you and will do my best to help.” Tell him or her, “It’s okay, it isn’t your fault.” A supportive friend can mean so much to someone who is in pain.

for more go HERE

© source where applicable

Handling a call from a suicidal person
# Be yourself. “The right words” are unimportant. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it.

# Listen. Let the person unload despair, ventilate anger. If given an opportunity to do this, he or she will feel better by the end of the call. No matter how negative the call seems, the fact that it exists is a positive sign, a cry for help.

# Be sympathetic, non-judgmental, patient, calm, accepting. The caller has done the right thing by getting in touch with another person.

# If the caller is saying “I’m so depressed, I can’t go on,” ask The Question: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?” You are not putting ideas in his head, you are doing a good thing for him. You are showing him that you are concerned, that you take him seriously, that it is OK for him to share his pain with you.

# If the answer is yes, you can begin asking a series of further questions: Have you thought about how you would do it (PLAN); Have you got what you need (MEANS); Have you thought about when you would do it (TIME SET). 95% of all suicidal callers will answer no at some point in this series or indicate that the time is set for some date in the future. This will be a relief for both of you.

# Simply talking about their problems for a length of time will give suicidal people relief from loneliness and pent up feelings, awareness that another person cares, and a feeling of being understood. They also get tired -- their body chemistry changes. These things take the edge off their agitated state and help them get through a bad night.

# Avoid arguments, problem solving, advice giving, quick referrals, belittling and making the caller feel that has to justify his suicidal feelings. It is not how bad the problem is, but how badly it’s hurting the person who has it.

# If the person is ingesting drugs, get the details (what, how much, alcohol, other medications, last meal, general health) and call Poison Control at _______________. A shift partner can call while you continue to talk to the person, or you can get the caller’s permission and do it yourself on another phone while the caller listens to your side of the conversation. If Poison Control recommends immediate medical assistance, ask if the caller has a nearby relative, friend, or neighbor who can assist with transportation or the ambulance. In a few cases the person will initially refuse needed medical assistance. Remember that the call is still a cry for help and stay with him in a sympathetic and non-judgmental way. Ask for his address and phone number in case he changes his mind. (Call the number to make sure it’s busy.) If your organization does not trace calls, be sure to tell him that.

# Do not go it alone. Get help during the call and debrief afterwards.

# Your caller may be concerned about someone else who is suicidal. Just listen, reassure him that he is doing the right thing by taking the situation seriously, and sympathize with his stressful situation. With some support, many third parties will work out reasonable courses of action on their own. In the rare case where the third party is really a first party, just listening will enable you to move toward his problems. You can ask, “Have you ever been in a situation where you had thoughts of suicide?”

Taken from HERE

News: http://www.afsp.org/research/articles/malone.html

Serotonin and the Suicidal Brain
Kevin Malone, M.D. and J. John Mann, M.D.

Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death in the United States and is among the three leading causes of death for those aged 15 to 34 years. For every person in the U.S. who dies by suicide, 10 people attempt suicide but survive. Suicide attempts are the most serious complication of Major Depressive Disorder, and, in up to forty percent of cases, attempts precede completed suicide.

Recent studies in Finland and England suggest that, while Major Depression is a recognizable and treatable disorder, only a small fraction of suicides with Major Depression received adequate antidepressant treatment prior to their deaths. Data from our own studies confirms that most depressed suicide attempters receive inadequate antidepressant treatment. Clinicians cannot easily predict which patients with Major Depression will attempt suicide and which depressives will not. This difficulty also perplexes and demoralizes the families of depressed, suicidal patients that must deal with the consequences of suicidal thoughts and actions.

Dr. John Mann directs the Federally-funded Mental Health Clinical Research Center for the Study of Suicidal Behavior, which was established in 1989. Located at the New York State Psychiatric Institute/Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center, the Research Center is uniquely dedicated to conducting suicide research across the life cycle in order to better understand the behavioral, biological, and genetic mechanisms underlying suicidal behavior.

for more go HERE

© source where applicable

some links to pages that can help you know more about suicide and prevention...

SAVE

suicide and suicide prevention

goldfields suicide prevention west aust

AFSP

reach out Australia

beyond blue australia

SPAN USA

American Association of suicidology

if you know any good sites or have a story to share please do so in this thread.

ya know, I am required to go to suicide prevention training at least once a year. sometimes, if there is a high rate of suicides we will have a safety standdown, stop all non-essential work production, and go through teh training again.

[Carico]

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[luv1another]

I have some questions.

What do you think about the culture that now seems to tell us that death is sometimes the best option? Suicide just doesn't seem to have the taboo or "wrongness" about it that it once did. After all, it is my body (to use a phrase, not speaking personally) why isn't it my choice? How do we answer that pervasive mentality?

Also I know that many people who are having these thoughts just don't want interference. They would tell a friend, but they don't want that friend telling anyone else? What about those situations?

I think its a sign of the times less people are Christians less parents are at home to tell kids taking your own life is wrong. I think not only is this a chemical imbalance being caused by the society we live in but also a decline in morals and like I said stay at home parents etc...I would say there are lots of factors.

its my choice is something being taught like you said and unless someone is Christian or has some twinge of a higher being creating them there isnt anything that you can say...if you say God created your body and you dont have a right to take the life he gave you or anything else then a lot of people will just say something like no its my body he gave me a choice or I dont believe in a God and I dont want to be here I dont have to be or such stuff.

yeah they dont want their friends to tell someone else cause they are worried about looking dumb or whatever...thing is if the friend thinks there is a chance they really will do something I believe its that friends responsibilty to tell a pastor, counsellor or doctor or someone who can help them.

[Lady Macbeth]

I think its a sign of the times less people are Christians less parents are at home to tell kids taking your own life is wrong. I think not only is this a chemical imbalance being caused by the society we live in but also a decline in morals and like I said stay at home parents etc...I would say there are lots of factors.

its my choice is something being taught like you said and unless someone is Christian or has some twinge of a higher being creating them there isnt anything that you can say...if you say God created your body and you dont have a right to take the life he gave you or anything else then a lot of people will just say something like no its my body he gave me a choice or I dont believe in a God and I dont want to be here I dont have to be or such stuff.

yeah they dont want their friends to tell someone else cause they are worried about looking dumb or whatever...thing is if the friend thinks there is a chance they really will do something I believe its that friends responsibilty to tell a pastor, counsellor or doctor or someone who can help them.

Yes, I agree that a large part of the problem lies in young people not having access to a parent at all times. A parent needs to be there to encourage proper morning habits - waking at the same time, proper breakfast, motivation to start the day. A parent needs to be able to go and get the child from school if the child becomes ill or has any problem come up and needs intervention to "cool down" and refocus on being productive. A parent needs to be there when the child gets home from school to discuss how the day went, to help the transition from the school mindset to the family mindset and to guide allocation of time for evening activities. A parent needs to be there with the child as they watch TV, play video games or play on the Internet. They need to be available to provide emotional support, to answer questions and concerns that the child has and to be a source of security when the child feels they can't turn to anyone at school or other places.

I don't say they need to be Christian because I am not Christian and I was not raised Christian. I am Pagan and I was raised Atheist. Yes, I feel that faith in a higher power was lacking in my upbringing - there were things that my parents couldn't answer. (Oddly enough, growing up in a rural and largely Christian area, it was conflicts with Christians - "Why would God send me to Hell for not going to church?" - and questions about mysteries of life - "Why did those boys beat up that salamander and leave it to suffer and die?" - that they couldn't answer. In their minds, it just created reinforcement that there was no God. ^_^; ) I do believe that people who have the support of a spiritual foundation, however, stand a better chance at dealing with emotional issues.

And yes, intervention is still important, even if the person says they "don't want you to tell anyone." Persons without any support structure in their life get their knowledge of life from TV and other media - which too often gives the message that people who attempt suicide are inferior, bad, wrong and/or need to be locked up and forced into all kinds of scary situations with pills, needles, sterile environments and restraint devices. Many teens have fear of negative backlash - being grounded by their parents, being ostracized by their peers, or being isolated by the school district as a "problem" or "special case" if anyone were to find out. Especially for people who suffer from depression (I speak from experience) fear becomes a very powerful motivator in life. It's one of the emotions that you can still feel very powerfully, even when senses of happiness, sadness, anger, love or other emotional feelings become dulled or feel to be non-existent. Fear is actually the motivator that has kept me from attempting suicide - one of my greatest fears in life is of being considered "weak" or "a sissy." From the time I was little my parents have instilled the belief that the "weak" fail at life, that committing suicide only demonstrates that you're "weak," and that the only point of life is to not be "weak." Now that I'm better educated (neither of my parents have a college education, and I have a substantial amount of college education under my belt), I know that it is not correct - and I have also been given tools, through my education, to better manage my depression and give me other reasons to live other than simply being too afraid to die. And of course, I feel that my spiritual life has contributed greatly to the process - I have hit lows in the past where only prayer and belief has pulled me through.

[medical 2933]

Distance yourself from any means of suicide. If you are thinking of taking an overdose, give your medicines to someone who can give them to you one day at a time. Remove any dangerous objects or weapons from your home.

[medical 2933]

The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is a 24-hour, toll-free suicide prevention service available to anyone in suicidal crisis.

[medical 2933]

More people die from suicide than from homicide.
Suicide rates among the elderly are highest for those who are divorced or widowed.

[Teluog]

I highly recommend praying and asking God for help if you are feeling suicidal, whether you believe in Him or not. I recommend praying for those people who are suicidal as well.

[Rahab]

I highly recommend praying and asking God for help if you are feeling suicidal, whether you believe in Him or not. I recommend praying for those people who are suicidal as well.

Not to demean your suggestion... just a couple of tragicaly realistic comments : people attempt or complete suicide for all sorts of reasons. What they share in common is the loss of reason. Their thoughts are plagued by deep confusion. The sense of helping oneself is gone. The majority of suicides are prevented by an outside intervention(relatives, close friends, family members).

There are suicides caused by a pathological factor such as manic depression or other mental disorders. Then, there are circumstancial suicides. The former cannot be prevented by self help intervention. The mind itself is subjected to such bio chemical dysfunctionments that a "talk to God" may in fact result in the delusional understanding that "it is time to go home to be with the Lord". Some specific disorders cause both hallucinations and delusion which result in the misperception of the person's existing realities.

Circumstancial suicides are caused by an emotional overload resulting from an abrupt change of circumstances. Such as a divorce, death of a loved one, loss of financial security etc...The reason for the desire to die is usualy motivated by the need to stop feeling pain. It is the chosen exit from experiencing overwhelming fear, grief etc...The person cannot think in terms of "this is a terminal choice here I am making". Stopping the emotional pain prevails without considering the terminality of his/her own life.

Staying close and attentive to the needs of folks who experience such hardships is IMO what provides enough comfort to empower them to consider that the pain will decrease with time. Directing them towards a professional counselor in order to help them overcome mental confusion and refocus on long term goals and solutions. None of those would cancel or oppose your suggestions.

For pathologicaly caused suicidal tendencies : remaining under medical supervision IMO is vital. Benefiting of family members who monitor that supervision and are actively involved in watching for any signs of "deep low" is equaly vital. My mother would periodicaly wean herself from her medications without medical approval. Either side effects or a sense of "feeling super good" were the usual justifications. IOW, she could not be trusted alone to remain treated for her mental illness. I cannot emphasize enough how much close family members have to be active participants and observers.

Can anyone evaluate the cause of a friend or relative's suicidal tendencies? Usualy, pathologicaly induced tendencies will be accompanied by other symptoms related to mental disorders or the prolongued use of drugs and sometime alcohol. In those cases, outside intervention is an absolute must. A medical diagnosis is necessary to evaluate the treatment.

Tendencies caused by circumstances are obviously easy to identify. Again, closeness, support, comfort and counseling referal. Such counselors are also trained to detect depression induced symptoms. However, they do not prescribe anti depressants. A licensed physician will have to do it.

[Crow]

A friend of mine committed suicide a few years ago. He had an extremely painful physical disease. That's right--it wasn't *revolting saccharine commercial voice* "depression hurts." He could not get adequate relief from the medical community--instead he was shuffled from pillar to post, he lost his job, his home, and his life savings was poured into the pockets of those who should have helped him in his sufferings but instead "protected" him from the pain medicines that would have allowed him to continue a near-normal life because they were "protecting" him from addiction, and said so frequently.

I don't think that one can neatly write off all suicide to "depression." Yeah, Allan was depressed at not getting any relief from near 24 hr a day severe pain that kept him from having a life and made him lose his job and everything he had worked for, and outraged, and humiliated. Uh.....who wouldn't be? But y'know, this man would not have ever considered suicide if he hadn't been in horrible agony for several years, been looked down upon like a junkie grubbing for a fix when he reported his pain, lost his life savings on useless "treatments" that only increased his suffering, and didn't even receive the comfort of a few pain free hours a day to allow him to sleep. Doctors did dump anti-depressants on him, and they did "counsel" him, and talk is cheap--it must be because that's about all Allan ever got when he desperately chased after the relief he needed and which never came.

I don't think everyone who commits suicide does so out of a sense of confusion or suffers from a mental disorder. My buddy Allan was pretty realistic in his assessment of the unlikelihood of ever getting relief from pain and all of the happy pills in the world didn't make "sucks" not siphon. He wasn't willing to live in ceaseless physical agony. He wasn't abandoned by those who loved him, he went to the grave with much family and many friends who loved him, shared in his frustration at not being able to get the help he needed, and we would have done anything in our power to ease his suffering, but that ability wasn't in our hands.

Many people take their lives every year because of the refusal of the medical community to treat pain adequately. They are the collateral damage in the war on drugs. Jack Kevorkian would be run out of town on a rail and the "assisted suicide" movement would be mostly down the tubes if the reality of untreated and under treated pain didn't exist. No amount of counselling and no number of antidepressants gives these people the help they need to survive. Their situation is just as desperate as that of people who jump to their deaths from a burning building to escape the torment of being burned alive, but nearly universally downplayed or not considered. It goes on day after day, year after year, and goes on today as you read this, and will go on tomorrow, and the day after that. I currently know of three individuals who will not seek treatment for serious but treatable medical conditions because they know that it will only prolong their suffering.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't write off all suicide to sadness, mental imbalances, depression, and irrationality. Many cases do not fit nicely into that box. And if it's ever in your power to vote, advocate humane treatment of pain, or correct the notion that people who seek relief from their pain are trying to get high, please do so. We lose too many precious lives because our society doesn't take chronic pain seriously and doesn't believe that it can be as severe as short term pain. Great people like Allan die from society's ignorance each and every day. It's a hellishly unnecessary waste of human life.

[Teluog]

A friend of mine committed suicide a few years ago. He had an extremely painful physical disease. That's right--it wasn't *revolting saccharine commercial voice* "depression hurts." He could not get adequate relief from the medical community--instead he was shuffled from pillar to post, he lost his job, his home, and his life savings was poured into the pockets of those who should have helped him in his sufferings but instead "protected" him from the pain medicines that would have allowed him to continue a near-normal life because they were "protecting" him from addiction, and said so frequently.

I don't think that one can neatly write off all suicide to "depression." Yeah, Allan was depressed at not getting any relief from near 24 hr a day severe pain that kept him from having a life and made him lose his job and everything he had worked for, and outraged, and humiliated. Uh.....who wouldn't be? But y'know, this man would not have ever considered suicide if he hadn't been in horrible agony for several years, been looked down upon like a junkie grubbing for a fix when he reported his pain, lost his life savings on useless "treatments" that only increased his suffering, and didn't even receive the comfort of a few pain free hours a day to allow him to sleep. Doctors did dump anti-depressants on him, and they did "counsel" him, and talk is cheap--it must be because that's about all Allan ever got when he desperately chased after the relief he needed and which never came.

I don't think everyone who commits suicide does so out of a sense of confusion or suffers from a mental disorder. My buddy Allan was pretty realistic in his assessment of the unlikelihood of ever getting relief from pain and all of the happy pills in the world didn't make "sucks" not siphon. He wasn't willing to live in ceaseless physical agony. He wasn't abandoned by those who loved him, he went to the grave with much family and many friends who loved him, shared in his frustration at not being able to get the help he needed, and we would have done anything in our power to ease his suffering, but that ability wasn't in our hands.

Many people take their lives every year because of the refusal of the medical community to treat pain adequately. They are the collateral damage in the war on drugs. Jack Kevorkian would be run out of town on a rail and the "assisted suicide" movement would be mostly down the tubes if the reality of untreated and under treated pain didn't exist. No amount of counselling and no number of antidepressants gives these people the help they need to survive. Their situation is just as desperate as that of people who jump to their deaths from a burning building to escape the torment of being burned alive, but nearly universally downplayed or not considered. It goes on day after day, year after year, and goes on today as you read this, and will go on tomorrow, and the day after that. I currently know of three individuals who will not seek treatment for serious but treatable medical conditions because they know that it will only prolong their suffering.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't write off all suicide to sadness, mental imbalances, depression, and irrationality. Many cases do not fit nicely into that box. And if it's ever in your power to vote, advocate humane treatment of pain, or correct the notion that people who seek relief from their pain are trying to get high, please do so. We lose too many precious lives because our society doesn't take chronic pain seriously and doesn't believe that it can be as severe as short term pain. Great people like Allan die from society's ignorance each and every day. It's a hellishly unnecessary waste of human life.

Was there actually available treatment or was your friend in a spot where he slipped inbetween the available treatments? In other words did he just have bad luck, or was the medical community not doing its job?

[Crow]

Was there actually available treatment or was your friend in a spot where he slipped inbetween the available treatments? In other words did he just have bad luck, or was the medical community not doing its job?

What happened is that the medical community is afraid/reluctant to prescribe narcotics for just about anyone except a terminal patient, and Allan could have lived for years with his condition and, if his pain had been effectively treated, kept his job. There is so much misunderstanding about addiction--doctors withold narcotics believing that people will become addicted, even when the pain is so severe that they are at high risk for suicide from it. The fact is that while most people on long term opoids for medical conditions will become dependent, only about 1% will ever become addicted. There's a difference. Dependence can be broken fairly easily if a time ever comes that narcotics aren't needed--it's merely physical. Addiction has many psychological components which aren't easily dealt with.

Doctors are very concerned with opoid dependence--their patients will always "need" the drug as long as pain exists. They aren't concerned with insulin dependence, or on patients who will always "need" cardiac drugs, blood thinners, or renal dialysis. But pain is less tangible, less easily demonstrated, and perceived as somehow less real and less deadly. You can't run a blood test and demonstrate pain. In Allan's case the cause of his pain was readily seen on X-rays and inoperable. But as it lacked objective measure, the extent of the pain wasn't believed. Maybe they believed it after he took his own life. But I kinda doubt it.

My friend pretty much died from ignorance. He was never a recreational drug user, didn't even drink, didn't smoke, but got lumped in with the small percentage of people who do chemically entertain themselves because he kept going to doctors trying to get relief from his pain. He wasn't an isolated case, he wasn't even a rare case. He did all of the right things--went to the doctor, went to another and another when he received no relief, did the stuff he was told to do, and it wasn't enough, and from that point on it was tough luck. He lived with tough luck as long as he could bear it, and when he couldn't bear it any longer, he killed himself. Tough luck.

[Teluog]

What happened is that the medical community is afraid/reluctant to prescribe narcotics for just about anyone except a terminal patient, and Allan could have lived for years with his condition and, if his pain had been effectively treated, kept his job. There is so much misunderstanding about addiction--doctors withold narcotics believing that people will become addicted, even when the pain is so severe that they are at high risk for suicide from it. The fact is that while most people on long term opoids for medical conditions will become dependent, only about 1% will ever become addicted. There's a difference. Dependence can be broken fairly easily if a time ever comes that narcotics aren't needed--it's merely physical. Addiction has many psychological components which aren't easily dealt with.

Doctors are very concerned with opoid dependence--their patients will always "need" the drug as long as pain exists. They aren't concerned with insulin dependence, or on patients who will always "need" cardiac drugs, blood thinners, or renal dialysis. But pain is less tangible, less easily demonstrated, and perceived as somehow less real and less deadly. You can't run a blood test and demonstrate pain. In Allan's case the cause of his pain was readily seen on X-rays and inoperable. But as it lacked objective measure, the extent of the pain wasn't believed. Maybe they believed it after he took his own life. But I kinda doubt it.

My friend pretty much died from ignorance. He was never a recreational drug user, didn't even drink, didn't smoke, but got lumped in with the small percentage of people who do chemically entertain themselves because he kept going to doctors trying to get relief from his pain. He wasn't an isolated case, he wasn't even a rare case. He did all of the right things--went to the doctor, went to another and another when he received no relief, did the stuff he was told to do, and it wasn't enough, and from that point on it was tough luck. He lived with tough luck as long as he could bear it, and when he couldn't bear it any longer, he killed himself. Tough luck.

I think I would have gone to the press. I see stories like this on the news all the time now.