The 3RD question the Arminian can't answer

[themuzicman]

Colossians, is the answer to prayer always a yes in the Calvinist paradigm?

X - We need to begin treating Colossians like Zipperhead. Both are impervious to proper scriptural exegesis. They beilieve they are inerrant. There is a time to leave the reprobate to wallow in their sin.

Michael

[Colossians]

Xans,

The teaching of 1 John 5:14,15 is that God does not even hear us if we do not ask according to His will. Such 'prayer' then is not even rightly called "prayer". Rather, it is the flesh babbling to God.
This is the Calvinist, and biblical, position.

[themuzicman]

Xans,

The teaching of 1 John 5:14,15 is that God does not even hear us if we do not ask according to His will. Such 'prayer' then is not even rightly called "prayer". Rather, it is the flesh babbling to God.
This is the Calvinist, and biblical, position.

1 John 5

14. This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
15. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.

Are you really that dense? You're arguing from silence, and ignoring the context of the verse.

The implication of what you just said is that God isn't omniscient, because He doesn't understand us when we pray something that is not his will...

How does it feel to deny omniscience?

Michael

[Colossians]

Music man,

You need to spend a little more time thinking through things.
What you have said has nothing to do with what I have said.
Suggestion: read very carefully what is written.

[themuzicman]

Music man,

You need to spend a little more time thinking through things.
What you have said has nothing to do with what I have said.
Suggestion: read very carefully what is written.

Gee, I only cited the verse you quoted, since you failed to do so, and then pointed out your errors.

Apparantly you think you're inerrant.... Are you?

[Colossians]

Gee, I only cited the verse you quoted, since you failed to do so, and then pointed out your errors.

Apparantly you think you're inerrant.... Are you?

As I said, what you said had nothing to do with what I said.
This doesn't particularly bother me. What does bother me, is that it doesn't bother you.
You need to read what is actually written rather than inserting words in other people's mouths. At present you would not make a good lawyer.

[themuzicman]

As I said, what you said had nothing to do with what I said.
This doesn't particularly bother me. What does bother me, is that it doesn't bother you.
You need to read what is actually written rather than inserting words in other people's mouths. At present you would not make a good lawyer.

Please, then, cite and exegete this verse, to show us where God hears fleshly babble when we pray outside His will. Do so from this passage, since you cited it.

I showed you clearly where you were wrong, so let's have your exegetical work for this passage.

Michael

[Colossians]

Rather, you tell us the answer to the question instead of blocking your thoughts from arriving at the inevitable conclusion.

Tell us why that even though God has said that if we ask ANYTHING IN ACCORD WITH HIS WILL we WILL RECEIVE what we ask for, you don't believe you He will grant you your request if you ask for the salvation of all men, WHICH YOU SAY IS HIS WILL.

Could it possibly be that it is not His will?

[seer]

You don't understand the subjunctive do you.

There is a world of difference between "my prayer is that they will be saved" (indicative) and "my prayer is that they might be saved" (subjunctive).

So take some grammar lessons first, and then come back to me with a proper example.

Even more importantly, explain why God would give us 1 John, knowing one of the greatest possible fulfillments of it was denied us, without telling us.

Of course he said might/may. He is STILL praying for their salvation Colossians! Now, agian - was Paul praying in the will of God.

Do you pray for your loved ones Colossians?

[Colossians]

Of course he said might/may. He is STILL praying for their salvation Colossians! Now, agian - was Paul praying in the will of God.

Do you pray for your loved ones Colossians?

I anticipated you'd say this, thus sweeping aside any desire to know why he didn't pray that "they will be saved".
Again, go and learn about the subjunctive, and therefore learn what Paul was actually saying.


And then tell us why the "anything" which we receive if in accord with God's will, somehow excludes the salvation of souls without saying so.
Then go off and deduce the obvious: it is not God's will that all be saved, thus preserving the integrity of 1 Jo 5:14-15.


You see, we accept 1 John 5:14,15 as it says. We don't infuse our own ideas into it, and produce exceptions to the rule like you do while maintaining you are submitted to scripture.

[seer]

I anticipated you'd say this, thus sweeping aside any desire to know why he didn't pray that "they will be saved".

He didn't pray that they WILL be saved because Paul was NOT a Calvinist.

Again, go and learn about the subjunctive, and therefore learn what Paul was actually saying.

Now, I'am starting to question your honesty. Was Paul praying for the salvation of these Christ rejecting Jews or not. If not what exactly was he praying for.

And again Colossians, do you pray for the salvation of your loved ones - yes or no...

[Colossians]

Seer,

Rather than question my honesty, I would question yours, specifically, why you chose to all of a sudden type copy individual items of mine rather than your usual quote method.

Glaringly obivious was your editing out of the followiing:
And then tell us why the "anything" which we receive if in accord with God's will, somehow excludes the salvation of souls without saying so.
Then go off and deduce the obvious: it is not God's will that all be saved, thus preserving the integrity of 1 Jo 5:14-15.
You see, we accept 1 John 5:14,15 as it says. We don't infuse our own ideas into it, and produce exceptions to the rule like you do while maintaining you are submitted to scripture.


Until you address both the above issue, and the fact of Paul's use of the subjunctive rather than the indicative mood, I will not be wasting anymore time responding to you on this thread.
It is glaringly obvious you have no answer to the specific contradiction the thread proposes in your thinking, other than to circumvent it by an exception clause, which anyone can do. Thus you are not honest with yourself with regard to your assertion that you follow scripture to a 'T'.

[seer]

Until you address both the above issue, and the fact of Paul's use of the subjunctive rather than the indicative mood, I will not be wasting anymore time responding to you on this thread.
It is glaringly obvious you have no answer to the specific contradiction the thread proposes in your thinking, other than to circumvent it by an exception clause, which anyone can do. Thus you are not honest with yourself with regard to your assertion that you follow scripture to a 'T'.

Subjunctive mood

n : a mood that represent an act or state as contingent or possible.

Paul clearly believes that it is possible for these Christ rejecting Jews to be saved. And he is praying for just that. And I did answer the contradiction that only exists in the Calvinist mind. As I have proved from scripture men can and do resist the love of God.

So Colossians - do you pray for your loved ones? Why won't you answer?