The 4th question the Arminian can't answer

[Colossians]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

[Kevin Wayne]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

Ah, I've been waiting for this one...



Because we will be in the prescence of the Living God. We will no longer "see in a mirror dimly," but we will then see "face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." (I Cor12:13)


We will have come through the testing, and be at the end of the promise that "He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Php 1:6) We wiil be "made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end." (Heb 3:14)



Putting it quite simply, God's work will be done.


That's all I have to say regarding the matter. I'll let the others deal with the pretext of your question (free will as "an eternal property of man.") Toodles.

[seer]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

My deepest desire is to love and serve God. Yet three things get in the way - the flesh, the world, and the Devil. None of which will be present in the world to come. Along with this we will have knowledge - a perfect picture of history and the grief and sorrow man's sins caused. Why would any of us want to go back to that?

[Kenite]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

No-one can set it all off again.

'It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.' (Heb 6:4-6 NIV)

[themuzicman]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

Apparantly Colossians hasn't read 1 Cor 15, where we become incorruptible. Maybe he should put down the Calvinist Reader and pick up a bible.

Michael

[yxboom]

Apparantly Colossians hasn't read 1 Cor 15, where we become incorruptible. Maybe he should put down the Calvinist Reader and pick up a bible.

Michael

ouch.

[studyhound]

Apparantly Colossians hasn't read 1 Cor 15, where we become incorruptible. Maybe he should put down the Calvinist Reader and pick up a bible.

Michael

[john-philip]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

Go read some Plantinga.

[Faramir]

Apparantly Colossians hasn't read 1 Cor 15, where we become incorruptible. Maybe he should put down the Calvinist Reader and pick up a bible.

Michael

Please do not lump all of us Calvinist together like that!!

I for one found this question paricularly silly from a Calvinist persepctive (at least in a Calvninst who beleives in compatabilistic free will as do I) the "problem" exist for us as well. And can be resolved in much the same way as the Arminians here have answered. (I especially liked Seer's answer, sound like somethin RC Sproul would say )

[Xmansmommy]

Please do not lump all of us Calvinist together like that!!

I for one found this question paricularly silly from a Calvinist persepctive (at least in a Calvninst who beleives in compatabilistic free will as do I) the "problem" exist for us as well. And can be resolved in much the same way as the Arminians here have answered. (I especially liked Seer's answer, sound like somethin RC Sproul would say )

Thank you Faramir. It's always good to see someone admit that their view has some of the very same problems as another view.

[themuzicman]

Please do not lump all of us Calvinist together like that!!

Sorry, Faramir, I wasn't lumping all Calvinists in with him, but making a reference to Colossian's apparant inabiliity to do anything but spout what he's heard another Calvinist (vis a vis his Reader) said.

Michael

[One Bad Pig]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

The will of the Christian is to serve God. Christians continue to sin only because of the sin nature inherent in our corruptible bodies. When Christ returns, however, Christians will be given new, incorruptible bodies, and there will be no more sin nature. Furthermore, Christians are aware of the shame that sin causes in the presence of God, and will have memory of such; this would only reinforce the desire to obey God completely.

Now, you may try to bring up Satan's rebellion. Lucifer, as you are no doubt aware, is not a man, but an angel. After seeing Lucifer's demise (who was once the most powerful angel), what angel would do likewise?

Wow, that was tough. (and I'm not even an Arminian)

[yxboom]

Wow, that was tough. (and I'm not even an Arminian)

my condolences.

[betzerg]

Perhaps this question the Arminian can't answer, might be better called "the most important question the Arminian can't answer", for it concerns eternity.

The question:
"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man, one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

This is EXACTLY the purpose of free will. To LOVE G-d freely means that we understand our own sinfulness and inadaquacy and have BELIEVED G-d...that he alone is HOLY. IF we are just predestined to automatically recite the sinners prayer, we can never really KNOW THIS>

Question? How could Satan rebel without free will? HOw could ADAM sin without freewill?

These two things are an impossiblity...unless you just say G-d is an evil task/master play/writer who has produced a G-dawful drama at the expense of HIS OWN CREATION. IF there is no PURPOSE for creation, then G-d is not the G-d that I have come to know and love.

Actually, if there is no such things as moral free will then we might as well chuck the entire BIBLE...who would really need it.

Shalom,

BETZER

[Sheepdog]

here we go again.

"Given that you declare that free will is an eternal property of man,...

who says it's an eternal property of man?

i might be unusual for an Arminian, but i see freewill as a secondary attribute, as opposed to an essential attribute. God didn't have to create man with freewill, in other words, He just chose to out of His own freewill.

... one which he, if he is saved, will take with him into heaven, what guarantee can you offer that he will not once again use his free will to rebel against God some time after he has entered heaven, and so set the whole problem off all over again"?

well, i'm not even sure we take our freewill into heaven. i just haven't really studied up on post-resurrection life, so i'm not sure what it will be like.

but, i see no reason why we wouldn't have freewill there as well. i believe seer and others have given a good argument, but if i may develop it further, libertine freedom only requires the possibility of foregone choices, not that the content of those choices have to be a certain way. specifically, one could still have freedom even if one lacks the ability to commit sin. the only criteria is that there would have to be multiple options available, even if all of these options honor God in some way (and therefore is not sin).