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Thread: Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Christian3, thanks for your questions

    The answer to "If you don't believe Jesus died, then what do you think happened to Him?" is that after Jesus survival, Jesus ascended unto heaven.

    The answer "Do you believe Jesus was nailed to a cross?" is no as far as the nailing part because the nailing was not mentioned. I believe he was tortured on the cross for 6 to 9 hours and did not die at all in fulfillment of Jesus words that a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem in Luke 13:33. Jesus was however on the cross outside of Jerusalem according John 19:20.
    Yes, it was.

    John 20:25 - The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

    Or is that verse, like all the ones mentioning Jesus' death on the cross, one you conveniently ignore?
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  2. Amen Christian3 amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Yes, it was.

    John 20:25 - The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

    Or is that verse, like all the ones mentioning Jesus' death on the cross, one you conveniently ignore?


    I stand corrected. Thanks One Bad Pig

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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Christian3, thanks for your questions

    The answer to "If you don't believe Jesus died, then what do you think happened to Him?" is that after Jesus survival, Jesus ascended unto heaven.

    The answer "Do you believe Jesus was nailed to a cross?" is no as far as the nailing part because the nailing was not mentioned. I believe he was tortured on the cross for 6 to 9 hours and did not die at all in fulfillment of Jesus words that a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem in Luke 13:33. Jesus was however on the cross outside of Jerusalem according John 19:20. There are of course many other verses in support of Jesus words in Luke 13:33.
    Net Bible: 119 sn Death in Jerusalem is another key theme in Luke’s material: 7:16, 34; 24:19; Acts 3:22-23. Notice that Jesus sees himself in the role of a prophet here. Jesus’ statement, it is impossible that a prophet should be killed outside Jerusalem, is filled with irony; Jesus, traveling about in Galilee (most likely), has nothing to fear from Herod; it is his own people living in the very center of Jewish religion and worship who present the greatest danger to his life. The underlying idea is that Jerusalem, though she stands at the very heart of the worship of God, often kills the prophets God sends to her (v. 34). In the end, Herod will be much less a threat than Jerusalem.

    So what do you think happened to Jesus if you think He did not die?

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    Thanks Christian3 for the input.

    However, in Luke 13:33, Jesus referred to himself as a prophet because Jesus said "Ï must press on today, tomorrow and day after for a prophet CANNOT die outside of Jerusalem"

    The key word from Jesus lips is "CANNOT" which means "impossible" so when Jesus dies, he must die in Jerusalem. However, Jesus was only on the cross outside Jerusalem according to John 19:20 "Jesus was crucified NEAR the city"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Christian3, thanks for your questions

    The answer to "If you don't believe Jesus died, then what do you think happened to Him?" is that after Jesus survival, Jesus ascended unto heaven.

    The answer "Do you believe Jesus was nailed to a cross?" is no as far as the nailing part because the nailing was not mentioned. I believe he was tortured on the cross for 6 to 9 hours and did not die at all in fulfillment of Jesus words that a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem in Luke 13:33. Jesus was however on the cross outside of Jerusalem according John 19:20. There are of course many other verses in support of Jesus words in Luke 13:33.
    How did Jesus survive?

    Are you an AHMADIYAH Muslim?

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    Thanks Christian3 for your questions.

    I am not ahmadiyah. I argue for the survival of Jesus based on the accounts of the Gospels.

    The answer to your "How did Jesus survive?" is lies in the fact that Jesus was on the cross for only few hours at maximum of 9 hours, which is not enough to kill person according to the Roman crucifixion system, where typical victim of crucifixion will continue to be alive to at least one day because crucifixion was slow lingering death designed to prolong the agony of the victim.

    This explains Pilate's marvel if Jesus was already dead in Mark 15:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Thanks Christian3 for your questions.

    I am not ahmadiyah. I argue for the survival of Jesus based on the accounts of the Gospels.

    The answer to your "How did Jesus survive?" is lies in the fact that Jesus was on the cross for only few hours at maximum of 9 hours, which is not enough to kill person according to the Roman crucifixion system, where typical victim of crucifixion will continue to be alive to at least one day because crucifixion was slow lingering death designed to prolong the agony of the victim.

    This explains Pilate's marvel if Jesus was already dead in Mark 15:44.
    The same Gospels that repeatedly state that Jesus died and resurrected? Right.

  9. Amen Christian3, Chrawnus amen'd this post.
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    Cerebrum123, the answer to " The same Gospels that repeatedly state that Jesus died and resurrected?" is not very accurate statement because the authors of the Gospels tell us that Jesus breathed his last (no where the term 'died" is used in Jesus trial). Also, no one saw Jesus rising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Thanks Christian3 for your questions.

    I am not ahmadiyah. I argue for the survival of Jesus based on the accounts of the Gospels.

    The answer to your "How did Jesus survive?" is lies in the fact that Jesus was on the cross for only few hours at maximum of 9 hours, which is not enough to kill person according to the Roman crucifixion system, where typical victim of crucifixion will continue to be alive to at least one day because crucifixion was slow lingering death designed to prolong the agony of the victim.

    This explains Pilate's marvel if Jesus was already dead in Mark 15:44.
    How did Jesus survive?

    All the gospels and the NT testify that Jesus died and rose from the dead and Jesus said He would die and rise from the dead.

    Perhaps Pilate did not realize how badly He had been beaten. Jesus was so weak He had to have help carrying the cross beam and don't forget He was stabbed with a sword in the chest area.

    Jesus legs were not broken because He had stopped breathing. Why do you ignore all of this?

    You said you believed Jesus was crucified and nailed to a cross; however, the Qur'an says Jesus was not crucified:

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
    That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

    As for Pilate:

    Joseph went to Pilate while Jesus was still on the cross not breathing.

    Joseph didn't call Pilate up; he traveled to see him. This takes time.

    Joseph asks to speak to Pilate; this takes time for Pilate to come to Joseph.

    Pilate sends a centurion to go to the cross and make sure Jesus is dead. This takes time.

    The centurion goes back to Pilate and tells him that Jesus is dead; this takes time.

    Joseph is given permission to take Jesus down down from the cross so he returns to the cross; this takes time and all of this time Jesus has stopped breathing and has a fatal chest wound. Then Jesus is taken down from the cross.

    And on top of that Jesus is put into a tomb with a stone door which was slid into a groove. Yet Jesus is able to push it sideways even though there is nothing to grab on to on the inside of the tomb and all the while Jesus is bleeding from a stab wound and the wounds in His hands and feet. Jesus removed His clothes and took the time to fold them neatly!!!

    Then Jesus walks several miles and no one notices a naked, beaten, stabbed, bleeding man walking on the road and He walks on feet that have been run through by nails???

    Now tell us what happened to Jesus in your view. How did He survive and how long did He survive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Cerebrum123, the answer to " The same Gospels that repeatedly state that Jesus died and resurrected?" is not very accurate statement because the authors of the Gospels tell us that Jesus breathed his last (no where the term 'died" is used in Jesus trial). Also, no one saw Jesus rising.
    When you stop breathing for the length of time Jesus stopped breathing you are dead.

    Jesus appeared to any after He rose from the dead.

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