Radiocarbon Dating by Willard F Libby.

[pancreasman]

Ooooooh ... kay.

[37818]

Source: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/chemistry/laureates/1960/libby-bio.html

Libby's book, Radiocarbon Dating, was published by the University of Chicago Press in 1952, and a second edition appeared in 1955.

© Copyright Original Source

Oh, copies of the second edition can be ordered from amazon.com.

[Leonhard]

Source: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/chemistry/laureates/1960/libby-bio.html

Libby's book, Radiocarbon Dating, was published by the University of Chicago Press in 1952, and a second edition appeared in 1955.

© Copyright Original Source

Oh, copies of the second edition can be ordered from amazon.com.

You haven't sold the book very well so far.

[37818]

You haven't sold the book very well so far.

I buying a copy of the book a used second edition.

I really do not care if anyone else buys a copy. As far as I knew it was not available. I'm glad I was wrong.

[Kbertsche]

I have had the book in my hands. It was a library book. That Pomona library has since been closed.

The book documents that coal and oil having being carbon dated. While the accuracy had question marks. They were every one under 40,000 years. About 30,000 and under.

Nothing to indicate millions of years. This book is virtually impossible to find, little to wonder why.

Libby pioneered a new field. But it has come very far since he did so. Carbon dating is not done the same way now as in Libby's day.

Libby did not have AMS, so was forced to use large samples and to count the radiocarbon atoms which decayed. This severely limited his ability to date old samples (like coil and oil). Libby did not have calibrations based on dendrochronology, so was forced to make estimates which and assumptions which were not quite correct and which are no longer made (e.g. decay rate, constant radiocarbon level in the atmosphere).

[Omniskeptical]

What is amusing is how quickly that they embrace radiocarbon dating when it verifies that the Dead Sea Scrolls are a couple thousand of years old or when it shows that various copies of Biblical texts come from the 3rd or 4th century Ad rather than the Medieval period as some fringe scholars claimed. But the moment that it shows that something is older than 6 or 10,000 years it morphs into a tool of the devil never to be trusted.

It seems to work on the papyrus, but not corpses. And since carbon-14 is based on known dates, you can forgive me when I say the Dead Sea Scroll which includes the War Scroll is from the Bar Kochba period and perhaps later.

The War Scroll has nonkosher survival things like eating one's own feces, and drink one's own urine. These people fooled themselves into think they were Jews. But they didn't strangely pretend to be Israelites.

[JonF]

14C is not based on known dates. Corrections for changes in atmospheric 14C are based on known dates and other dating methods. But any carbon date without correction is good to within 10% or better.

[Omniskeptical]

The people of the Bar Kochba revolt fooled themselves into thinking they were just Israelites of Judah. It seems the Dead Sea Scrolls were written by them, and not during the time of the messiah Yeshu. Why is the carbon date estimate too old then?

It could be off by 10% by the way average life of 14C is set. Lambda is stretched out along too exponential points making it less than the instantaneous rate at domain 0. It is also ridiculous to think the average decay life lengthens overtime, how as there is an equilibrium of decay with parent production. It is likely 10% off, because logarithmic decay, whether asymptotic or not, is assumed. But the decay is linear, since production and decay are equal.

But there is also another issue to consider. The parchment, and the papyrus if any, may be older then the ink on the scrolls.

[JonF]

Most of your message is indecipherable gibberish. But this I understand:

decay is linear, since production and decay are equal

Total 14C in the atmosphere is constant when the amount produced is equal to the amount that decays. But in objects that are dated with 14C there is no significant amount of production, there's just decay, so the amount of 14C in the object decays ... ta da... exponentially.

[sfs1]

The people of the Bar Kochba revolt fooled themselves into thinking they were just Israelites of Judah. It seems the Dead Sea Scrolls were written by them, and not during the time of the messiah Yeshu.

It may seem that way to you, but not to most experts.

[Omniskeptical]

Most of your message is indecipherable gibberish. But this I understand:


Total 14C in the atmosphere is constant when the amount produced is equal to the amount that decays. But in objects that are dated with 14C there is no significant amount of production, there's just decay, so the amount of 14C in the object decays ... ta da... exponentially.

And your statement proves what exactly? The rate of production doesn't outpace the rate of decay. So average rate is not exponential. Think about it.

[Omniskeptical]

It may seem that way to you, but not to most experts.

Reading the War Scroll, one gets the impression that these people are not Israelites. Were Israelites known to eat feces and drink urine? Why did they feel their God was unsuccessful when their god had already raised the last messiah from death. Why are the messiahs predicted in the old testament like Akiba and Bar Kochba? Son of the Star, what kind of name is that anyway? How does one explain Israel existing supposedly past its last days?

[Kbertsche]

And your statement proves what exactly? The rate of production doesn't outpace the rate of decay. So average rate is not exponential. Think about it.

I'm not sure what you are talking about (and I'm not sure that you are, either!). The decay rate of radiocarbon is constant, so far as we know. The production rate of radiocarbon in the upper atmosphere is roughly constant, and roughly the same as the decay rate, so the amount (or concentration) of radiocarbon in the atmosphere is roughly constant.

When a plant dies, it stops taking in new radiocarbon from the atmosphere. When an animal dies, it stops taking in new radiocarbon from plants. The rate of radiocarbon decay stays constant, so the amount (or concentration) of radiocarbon in the organism decays. The amount (or concentration) of radiocarbon in the organism at any time thus follows an exponential decay curve.

A constant decay rate for radiocarbon produces an exponential decay in the amount (or concentration) of radiocarbon at any time. This is just basic calculus. Is this where you are confused?

[rogue06]

Reading the War Scroll, one gets the impression that these people are not Israelites. Were Israelites known to eat feces and drink urine? Why did they feel their God was unsuccessful when their god had already raised the last messiah from death. Why are the messiahs predicted in the old testament like Akiba and Bar Kochba? Son of the Star, what kind of name is that anyway? How does one explain Israel existing supposedly past its last days?

It looks like they're describing acts of desperation committed during times of war much like Jeremiah 19:9; Lamentations 2:20; 4:10; Ezekiel 5:10 does. And look at some of the names in the Old Testament. The "War Scroll" is generally dated as having been written during the late first century BC or early first century AD and therefore before Christ's death and resurrection (and even if written afterwards most Jews rejected him as the Messiah).

Finally, just what does any of this have to do with the reliability of the radiocarbon dating?

[Omniskeptical]

It looks like they're describing act of desperation committed during times of war much like Jeremiah 19:9; Lamentations 2:20; 4:10; Ezekiel 5:10 does. And look at some of the names in the Old Testament. And not being Christian they rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

It is disgusting, and not suggested by Israelite culture.

(10) Israel, for it is a day appointed by Him from ancient times as a battle of annihilation for the Sons of Darkness. On that day the congregation of the gods and the congregation of men shall engage one another, resulting in great carnage. (11) The Sons of Light and the forces of Darkness shall fight together to show the strength of God with the roar of a great multitude and the shout of gods and men; a day of disaster.

I smell POLYTHEISM