Gnosticism (split from theo201)

[eudyptes]

You are seeking to "know" God. This is the goal of the Gnosic.

From what I've read of Gnosticism, this is an oversimplification of the belief. To say that someone trying to know God is a Gnostic is therefore a misrepresentation.

Yes, gnosis/gnostic is from the Greek word for knowledge - and yes gnostics believe that "special knowledge" was the way to "reach" God, however there was a lot more that went with that belief. In the basic gnostic beliefs (and there are enough variations out there for me to have to state that this is an overall view and not all encomposing) is that flesh is an illusion and evil - and our spiritual side is incapable of sin. It's obtaining and understanding that "special knowledge" that frees the spirit from the bonds of the evil flesh.

They denied the diety of Christ, seeing Him as one who was a great teacher in how to leave the evil flesh behind an "ascend" to the spiritual.

This type of "knowledge seeking" is a whole lot different than someone wanting to know God through scripture in order to deepen one's relationship with Him.

[VFarris01]

From what I've read of Gnosticism, this is an oversimplification of the belief. To say that someone trying to know God is a Gnostic is therefore a misrepresentation.

Yes, gnosis/gnostic is from the Greek word for knowledge - and yes gnostics believe that "special knowledge" was the way to "reach" God, however there was a lot more that went with that belief. In the basic gnostic beliefs (and there are enough variations out there for me to have to state that this is an overall view and not all encomposing) is that flesh is an illusion and evil - and our spiritual side is incapable of sin. It's obtaining and understanding that "special knowledge" that frees the spirit from the bonds of the evil flesh.

They denied the diety of Christ, seeing Him as one who was a great teacher in how to leave the evil flesh behind an "ascend" to the spiritual.

This type of "knowledge seeking" is a whole lot different than someone wanting to know God through scripture in order to deepen one's relationship with Him.

You need to read more and post less...

[eudyptes]

You need to read more and post less...

I will try to do better in the future - would you be so kind as to point out what I may have missed in my post? Thank you.

[Xavier]

I will try to do better in the future - would you be so kind as to point out what I may have missed in my post? Thank you.

Fret not... You were correct and anyone with a moderate amount of Christian History knows that...

Even the wikipedia article on Gnostism would be a start for this guy.

[eudyptes]

Fret not... You were correct and anyone with a moderate amount of Christian History knows that...

Even the wikipedia article on Gnostism would be a start for this guy.

Was pretty sure I was, I've done a modest amount of research on the topic.

Since his comment was umm...blunt, and lacking in any information, I wanted to give him the opportunity to show where he felt I went wrong.

[VFarris01]

I will try to do better in the future - would you be so kind as to point out what I may have missed in my post? Thank you.

You made an assumption about my intent when referring to Gnosticism. Contrary to the attempts of its (Gnosticism's) detractors to label the beliefs of the ancient Gnostics as "heretics" the opposite may indeed be true. This is off topic for this thread, so we should drop this discussion before I am labeled.

[eudyptes]

You made an assumption about my intent when referring to Gnosticism. Contrary to the attempts of its (Gnosticism's) detractors to label the beliefs of the ancient Gnostics as "heretics" the opposite may indeed be true. This is off topic for this thread, so we should drop this discussion before I am labeled.

Guilty as charged on the assumption - the references to "Gnostics" and the goal of "Gnostics" in your posts seemed - to me, and therefore the reason for my assumption -- to be referencing Gnosticism in the way I addressed in my post.

I don't remember that I've run across a reference to "Gnostics" and belief that referenced any other concept or group. I apologize if I misrepresented what you were saying. But I must also confess to now being confused as to what you meant by your references to "Gnostics"?

[VFarris01]

Because it does not "flow" with the rest of the passage.

Are you suggesting it shouldn't be in scripture?

Are you sure the phrase is not a later addition? Any quotation in the Bible which does not seem to fit should be looked on with a bit of suspicion.

You are seeking to "know" God. This is the goal of the Gnosic.

Yes I am. Do you think it's an attainable goal for a Christian?

While, as pointed out by eudy-, the stated "goal of the Gnostics" is somewhat abbreviated, "knowing" God is not unattainable by anyone seeking His enlightenment. Contrary to popular belief, the Gnostics were Christians too.

Exactly! (This is the answer xy would have given had he been without {what appears to be} an "agenda.")

So, do you intend to answer it?

xy made a statement in the form of a question. It requires no "answer."

Sorry, I cannot/will not do for you what you will not do for yourself.

Ok VFarris, as you wish. I have no problem doing my homework on the issue, but I suppose I thought because you brought it up you had a purpose for doing so. And I thought perhaps that purpose was to help me see my flaws, etc.

I made an observation. Nothing more.

[VFarris01]

You made an assumption about my intent when referring to Gnosticism. Contrary to the attempts of its (Gnosticism's) detractors to label the beliefs of the ancient Gnostics as "heretics" the opposite may indeed be true. This is off topic for this thread, so we should drop this discussion before I am labeled.

Guilty as charged on the assumption - the references to "Gnostics" and the goal of "Gnostics" in your posts seemed - to me, and therefore the reason for my assumption -- to be referencing Gnosticism in the way I addressed in my post.

I don't remember that I've run across a reference to "Gnostics" and belief that referenced any other concept or group. I apologize if I misrepresented what you were saying. But I must also confess to now being confused as to what you meant by your references to "Gnostics"?

I am frequently taken out of context by those who would defend the "orthodox" religions of Catholicism and Orthodoxy (I am almost virulently anti-RC), thus, my aversion to being labeled as anything other than a Christian regardless of the details.

Early Christianity was probably more diverse than anything we would come across today calling itself "Christianity." We have been "locked-down" to accept the "orthodox" view of Christianity, when, in fact, the early Christians (1^st and 2^nd century) held views quite different than modern Christians (after the 3^rd century).

A thorough reading of this book might catch you up on what you have been missing.

[seer]

I am frequently taken out of context by those who would defend the "orthodox" religions of Catholicism and Orthodoxy (I am almost virulently anti-RC), thus, my aversion to being labeled as anything other than a Christian regardless of the details.

Early Christianity was probably more diverse than anything we would come across today calling itself "Christianity." We have been "locked-down" to accept the "orthodox" view of Christianity, when, in fact, the early Christians (1^st and 2^nd century) held views quite different than modern Christians (after the 3^rd century).

A thorough reading of this book might catch you up on what you have been missing.

What are we missing? Confusion? Denying the Old Testament?

[Xavier]

What are we missing? Confusion? Denying the Old Testament?

My bet is on the Dualism... You know the whole good God versus bad God deal.

[seer]

My bet is on the Dualism... You know the whole good God versus bad God deal.

Yes,body bad,spirit good. No incarnation...

[VFarris01]

What are we missing? Confusion? Denying the Old Testament?

My bet is on the Dualism... You know the whole good God versus bad God deal.

Yes,body bad,spirit good. No incarnation...

What part of, "A thorough reading of this book might catch you up on what you have been missing" did you two not understand? This book is about history not doctrine.

[seer]

What part of, "A thorough reading of this book might catch you up on what you have been missing" did you two not understand? This book is about history not doctrine.

I have studied the history - so what am I missing?

[Xavier]

What part of, "A thorough reading of this book might catch you up on what you have been missing" did you two not understand? This book is about history not doctrine.

I've got better things to do with my time than read a revisionist take on Church History. From the two or three ones that I've already read, Gnostism is a heresy as defined.