Originally posted by lao tzu
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Comparative Religions 101 Guidelines
Welcome to Comp Religions, this is where the sights and sounds of the many world religions come together in a big World's Fair type atmosphere, without those delicious funnel cakes.
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This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God.
And as usual, the forum rules apply.
Forum Rules: Here
World Religions is a theist only type place, but that does not exclude certain religionists who practice non-theistic faiths ala Buddhism. If you are not sure, ask a moderator.
This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God.
And as usual, the forum rules apply.
Forum Rules: Here
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Your religious beliefs are false, now what?
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostThat's not really called for nor remotely productive."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWeather is keeping me from mowing, so I thought I'd look at what UUs believe -- the VERY FIRST goggle result was comical....
http://www.uubloomington.org/worship/beliefs/Jesus.php
They spend more time talking about what they DON'T believe....
That pretty much goes along with my real life experience with UUs --- a bunch of burned out hippies pretending to have church.
As far as what they believe, they believe in their Cred, and most UUs believe in the Humanist Manifesto.Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-17-2015, 06:38 AM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI favor the UU over any Christian Church,
You missed the meaning of the descriptionLast edited by Cow Poke; 04-17-2015, 08:54 AM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostI think (hope) he is just exaggerating for comic effect. You know, comedy?
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostI think (hope) he is just exaggerating for comic effect. You know, comedy?
Shuny takes himself WAY too seriously. The rest of us don't take him that way.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Jesse View PostI don't want this turning into an off-topic flame thread.Originally posted by lao tzu View PostIn fact, I'm kind of fond of making honest responses only to see you dismiss them as trolling, so I think I'll continue. But if you'd like to try again, you might want to compare my first response to BP's ... which is essentially the same.Originally posted by Jesse View PostThere isn't enough Purex to wash away this amount of stupid.
Now follow along as best you can, lad, and see what "essentially the same" looks like.
Originally posted by lao tzu View PostMost of the atheists I know have addressed this dilemma with their faith by abandoning it.Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostWell, considering I've already been on one side of this issue, I can answer from personal experience as well as the hypothetical.
I was a Christian. A fundamentalist, Young Earth Creationist, evangelical Christian with a very strong, literalist view of Biblical inerrancy. When I came to realize that my view on inerrancy was wrong, it caused me to question all of the religious positions which I had simply taken for granted, my whole life-- including the existence of deity. This, in turn, caused me to realize that I had no good justification for my previous belief in God's existence, and I subsequently became an atheist.
You don't "get" atheism. In this, you have plenty of company, so it bears repeating: Atheism is a lack of belief, and for many if not most of us who became atheists after abandoning another faith, it's a lack of belief that followed a course of years of soul-searching inquiry. At the end of that process, we found that "our religious beliefs were false."
You continued with "now what." Regarding brevity as the soul of wit: We gave them up.
There's a good deal more that could be said, of course.
For many if not most of us, that loss of faith was followed by loss of place in the community, by being shunned by lifelong friends, and more tragically, being abandoned by family. One of the most moving stories of this process was shared by the IIDB poster "Christ-on-a-Stick" — A Salvation Story (PDF). I've spoken of my own experiences privately with a number of members here on TWeb, and, in a semi-private forum on the TWeb that was lost, of the still somewhat uneasy rapprochement with my sister and the niece I was not allowed to contact for the next fifteen years while she was still a child. In much of the US, "atheist" is still a synonym of "evil," and evil is something to which children should not be exposed.
BP went above and beyond with his answer, outlining how he feels he'd react to finding that in some sense, his abandonment of belief was ill-chosen, and that there remained some divine essence that could survive the earlier inquiries. This is not at all the same as "finding his beliefs were false."
Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostNow that I am an atheist, if the existence of some sort of deity could be proven, I would investigate that deity with interest. However, the fact that a deity exists does not imply that such a deity either wants or deserves worship. There's quite a leap between "deity exists" and "the God proposed by orthodox Christianity exists."
Well, my belief in Jesus anyway. I can't imagine believing in the Bible again in the sense I once did, rather than the sense I do now. I find more meaning in the Bible as an atheist than I ever did as a Christian. Brought down from its pedestal, its flaws reveal a depth of history that's unapproachable while it remains an object of worship.
In full contact with your question, though, as suggested by the balance between my screen name and signature, I have taken up fundamental beliefs that to a large extent have replaced my beliefs as a theist. From the Blakney translation:
The secret waits for the insight
Of eyes unclouded by longing;
Those who are bound by desire
See only the outward container.
This is Lao Tzu, the anti-apologist, delivering a deliberately pseudonymous message: that the truth that can be found by searching for what's wanted is less than the truth that can be found.
I believe this. What if I'm wrong? Not entirely, of course. This is a message that can be checked, and it checks out, in science, and in my own field of mathematics. At our best, we approach our theorems and hypotheses as things which can be proven, or disproven ... or even found indeterminate.
But what if there are other truths, spiritual truths, truths that encompass a personal, eternal consciousness that can only be found by believing they exist? Everlastingly important truths. I have no idea how I could discover this, but what if it were true?
Now what?
Then I guess I'll be damned.
As ever, Jesse
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