Is this idolatry?

[Leonhard]

In a discussion thread on Marian devotion, it was suggested by Paprika that "Idolatry isn't merely ascribing what belongs solely to God to something else." which is exactly what I'd say idolatry is, as that's how the Church Father's used the term. Whenever someone venerated icons, representing foreign gods, that was idolatry. Taken in a more general term, its ascribing to something created that which belongs solely to God.

Icons and statues of the saints and the blessed Virgin take up a lot of space in The Catholic Church and in the Eastern Orthodox liturgy and piety, so sometimes we hear this accusation from protestants (in some cases those protestants were ourselves before we joined the Church ).

This is a thread to discuss whether these kinds of piety constitute idolatry, and what idolatry is.

[Thoughtful Monk]

I generally go with your definition of idolatry so I need to see Paprika's definition before I can form a response.

[Soyeong]

From: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...7-worship-idol

[footwasher]

The manner in which idol worship takes place is as follows:

Physical object
Selfish motive
Self effort

In every idol worshiping culture I have come across, the motive has been to chase after worldly gains: possession of good harvest, money, mate, fame or power. Different idols were assigned different spheres of activity, one for wealth, another for love, etc. A friend of mine returned from a visit to Turkey, and bought a small statue of Artemis. It was a molded figure of Diana or Artemis and it was covered with molded representations of the testicles of bulls: Artemis was a goddess of fertility, prayed to by those who desired to have children!

Strictly speaking, idol worship does not require a physical object. Idol worship happens when the desire becomes a replacement for God, and all living breath is diverted to make those desires a reality. By that definition, the Pharisees were idol worshipers. They served mammon, not God:

Luke 16:13“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”

14Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him. 15And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.


Men esteem very highly wealth, beautiful mates and power, all detestable to God, because they turn us from chasing after that which God esteems highly, justice, mercy and faithfulness, attributes that distinguish Man as made in God's image, that He wants us to manifest, as opposed to the carnal desires, as seen in the word of God to us, through His prophets from Abel to John, to repent, turn from selfishness to unselfishness, and through seeing the futility of nature acting selfishly, acting without God.


Notice how Paul approaches the Areopageans, how he appeals to their inner nobility, which he attributes to their being God's children, and how he appeals to their sense of identity with God to stimulate them to desire what God desires, out of familial ties and out of obligation to their true Creator and Father:


Acts 17:16Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols. 17So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and in the market place every day with those who happened to be present. 18And also some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers were conversing with him. Some were saying, “What would this idle babbler wish to say?” Others, “He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities,”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is which you are proclaiming? 20“For you are bringing some strange things to our ears; so we want to know what these things mean.” 21(Now all the Athenians and the strangers visiting there used to spend their time in nothing other than telling or hearing something new.)

22So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. 23“For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. 24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29“Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

32Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to sneer, but others said, “We shall hear you again concerning this.” 33So Paul went out of their midst. 34But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

[37818]

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[Omniskeptical]

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[Omniskeptical]

Moderator's note: This area is for orthodox Christians only.