Prayer

[Bill the Cat]

Jonah 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Exactly. God punishes wickedness and rewards the penitent. In each of the situations mentioning God’s repentance, the change of heart or action actually occurred in man, not in God.

Jeremiah 18:7-10 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; if that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; if it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them .

[Obsidian]

No, it specifically says that the change of mind occurs with God. Man's change is just the cause.

It would be my position that God does not repent of his promises. But he does sometimes repent from his threats.

[Bill the Cat]

No, it specifically says that the change of mind occurs with God. Man's change is just the cause.

No it doesn't.

It would be my position that God does not repent of his promises. But he does sometimes repent from his threats.

They are the same thing. He promises mercy for the penitent and justice for the proud. What we get depends entirely on which side we decide to be on.

[JonathanL]

No, it specifically says that the change of mind occurs with God. Man's change is just the cause.

It would be my position that God does not repent of his promises. But he does sometimes repent from his threats.

Unless you're holding to open theism I don't see how anyone could hold to the view that God changes his mind. The only way you could reasonably argue that God changed his mind about punishing someone, for example, would be if God didn't know that the person in question was going to repent in the first place. IOW, if God knew from the beginning that the person was going to repent because of His warnings then it's just silly to think that God experienced a change of mind. God didn't change his mind, since God knew that the person in question was going to repent, so it was always God's intention to forgive that person for his sins.

[Catholicity]

Also I tend to hold on to a book of written prayers some are mine most are traditional it helps when I want to pray but have no idea where to begin.

[Obsidian]

@Chrawnus and Bill the Cat

You are basing your theology on philosophy, rather than the other way around.

[Bill the Cat]

@Chrawnus and Bill the Cat

You are basing your theology on philosophy, rather than the other way around.

You are basing yours on your own experience. I am basing mine on a clear statement in the Word of God. He does not change His mind. Yours falls apart and seriously insults God's omnipotence, as if He could be taken by surprise by a decision that a finite being makes.

[JonathanL]

@Chrawnus and Bill the Cat

You are basing your theology on philosophy, rather than the other way around.

I'm basing it on common sense. If God's omniscience includes knowing the future it is logically impossible for him to change his mind, because the act of changing your mind necessitates taking into account knowledge that you didn't have before. You can believe that God knows the future exhaustively or that He is able to change His mind, but not both at the same time.

[KingsGambit]

I suggest that the statements that at face value might indicate that God changes his mind should be read phenomenologically. Both standpoints can't be true. Peter Enns thinks we should just let them stand in tension without trying to resolve them, but I'm not as content to embrace paradox.

[Obsidian]

I am basing mine on a clear statement in the Word of God. He does not change His mind.

You're ignoring the clear statements from the word of God that he did change his mind.

I suggest that the statements that at face value might indicate that God changes his mind should be read phenomenologically. Both standpoints can't be true.

They can both be true as I explained. God is not like a man, in the sense that he does not break his promises. The only times where it says that God does not repent are in reference to promises.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

[Bill the Cat]

You're ignoring the clear statements from the word of God that he did change his mind.

No He didn't. Knowing the results of His interaction with humans who do is not His mind changing. It is ours that changes. Do you assume that God's mind is at our whim to change as we see fit?

[Obsidian]

The text says he did. You say he didn't.

[Bill the Cat]

The text says he did. You say he didn't.

No it doesnt. It says the exact opposite. He does not change His mind. He punishes the wicked and rewards the penitent. When the text speaks of God "repenting", it is always man that changed their minds which resulted in their being aligned with His mercy instead of His wrath. Again, do you seriously believe that God comes to the wrong conclusion and must be corrected on the eventual outcome?

[element771]

Well, I decided to really looking into what may be causing my inability to sincerely pray. I have to admit that God may have shown me the error in my ways. My job is very important to me. I realized that it may be a little too important and was potentially skating on thin ice with idolatry. It isn't easy but I have since admitted that this is a serious issue for me and pray that God's wisdom and grace will lead me down the right path.

As far as the debate in concerned, could you be describing the same phenomenon from two different perspectives. For example, when God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. Why did he do that? Was it to test Abraham's faith? According to one view, the test was not necessary give that God is omnipotent and knew full well that Abraham would carry it out. I don't think that this is the case. The other may be that God really wanted him to sacrifice Isaac and then changed his mind when he saw that Abraham was faithful. I have trouble believing in both of these scenarios.

This perfectly illustrates my views on prayer. How could my prayers change God's mind given God's omnipotence and will? On the other hand, Jesus tells us this is exactly what we should do? Does God not answer prayers or does just the act of praying fulfill what he already knew was going to happen in the first place?

[One Bad Pig]

Well, I decided to really looking into what may be causing my inability to sincerely pray. I have to admit that God may have shown me the error in my ways. My job is very important to me. I realized that it may be a little too important and was potentially skating on thin ice with idolatry. It isn't easy but I have since admitted that this is a serious issue for me and pray that God's wisdom and grace will lead me down the right path.

As far as the debate in concerned, could you be describing the same phenomenon from two different perspectives. For example, when God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. Why did he do that? Was it to test Abraham's faith? According to one view, the test was not necessary give that God is omnipotent and knew full well that Abraham would carry it out. I don't think that this is the case. The other may be that God really wanted him to sacrifice Isaac and then changed his mind when he saw that Abraham was faithful. I have trouble believing in both of these scenarios.

Alternatively, God gave the command because the outcome would strengthen Abraham and/or Isaac's faith.

This perfectly illustrates my views on prayer. How could my prayers change God's mind given God's omnipotence and will? On the other hand, Jesus tells us this is exactly what we should do? Does God not answer prayers or does just the act of praying fulfill what he already knew was going to happen in the first place?

Prayer is rather more for us than for God, since He knows what we need before we ask (Mat. 6:8). Prayer shows our dependence on God, and strengthens our relationship with Him.