Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Texas Pastor Protection Bill
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostWell, its more complicated than that,
but groups without outreach will always be small. Also musn't skimp on the holiness and the conversion of the heart. Its all important. Different discussion though. Its late here. Goodnight, nice talking to you guys. That goes for you Sam and you Pancreasman.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostCP, it was because of Christians like you that I left Christianity. If Christians had all been like Sam I would still call myself a Christian today. In your enthusiasm to head-count your direct converts you seem to be overlooking the difficulty of counting the number of people your awful attitude has driven away."It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
-Unknown
"Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis
I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
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Originally posted by Irate Canadian View PostWhat? So er, your faith was based on your emotions and positions on other people?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI think God had enough of it.
And I think Christ's Mother intervened on my behalf... I don't really like to think of what might have happened if I hadn't gotten on a good track again.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Irate Canadian View PostWhat? So er, your faith was based on your emotions and positions on other people?Last edited by RumTumTugger; 04-24-2015, 08:48 PM.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIn your enthusiasm to head-count your direct converts you seem to be overlooking the difficulty of counting the number of people your awful attitude has driven away.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Postacctually IC I suspect Starlights leaving of the faith if he ever had it was because he wants to be able to sin with impunity so if God calls what he wants to do a sin then he does not want God. pure and simple he wants to make up a god who will let him do what he wants. he does not want the TRUE God and never did.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostCP, it was because of Christians like you that I left Christianity. If Christians had all been like Sam I would still call myself a Christian today. In your enthusiasm to head-count your direct converts you seem to be overlooking the difficulty of counting the number of people your awful attitude has driven away."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by Irate Canadian View PostWhat? So er, your faith was based on your emotions and positions on other people?
For a long time I overlooked those so-called Christians who were less-than-loving, less-than-kind, less-than-caring, who showed little compassion for the poor, and who thought the bible told them to be anti-gay, and considered those people not real Christians. The tipping point really came when I realized the extent to which Christians around the world were anti-gay - that it wasn't just a few quacks with terrible exegesis but it was in fact the majority of "Christians" world-wide who were really and for-real against giving rights to the oppressed or helping the persecuted and that in fact they were the ones oppressing the weak in the name of Christ. For me that was the tipping point where I said to myself "well, I can't really justify defining 'true Christianity' based on my own understanding of the bible and putting the majority of Christians in the 'not-true-Christians' basket. I've just got to accept that the majority of Christians do in fact get to define what 'Christianity' really is. That means that I've got to accept that all those 'Christians' that I've been writing-off as 'not-true-Christians' due to them being unloving, uncharitable, self-righteous, anti-gay, hypocritical, ignorant, bible-betraying, Christ-unlike, jerks, who I didn't want to be associated with, are actually 'Christians'. Hmm, well I don't want to be associated with them, so I don't want to call myself a 'Christian'."
I get the impression that this general trend is happening to quite a lot of people. A hundred years ago there was a huge contingent of liberal Christians and nominal Christians, who balanced out the fundamentalists and made "Christianity" palatable to everyone, because everyone could find something to like. Over the decades, increasingly the nominal and liberal Christians have dropped out of churches and out of participation in Christian groups. This has meant that those within Christian groups have become increasingly only-fundamentalists with very little balance. The result is that a lot of moderate Christians are getting increasingly scared-off from Christian groups as the fundamentalists make it a matter of "it's my way or the highway", with various litmus tests of faith - eg opposition to gay marriage, opposition to evolution, opposition to abortion - that serve to alienate moderate Christians."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWhether I am willing to be associated with "Christianity" or call myself a "Christian" depends on what I perceive "Christianity" and "Christians" to be. When my perception of Christians was of those who have a loving, kind, caring and thoughtful attitude toward others and who are passionately concerned with the plight of the poor and helping those in need in our society (as Sam seems an able ambassador of), then I was quite happy to call myself a "Christian" and be associated with "Christianity".
For a long time I overlooked those so-called Christians who were less-than-loving, less-than-kind, less-than-caring, who showed little compassion for the poor, and who thought the bible told them to be anti-gay, and considered those people not real Christians. The tipping point really came when I realized the extent to which Christians around the world were anti-gay - that it wasn't just a few quacks with terrible exegesis but it was in fact the majority of "Christians" world-wide who were really and for-real against giving rights to the oppressed or helping the persecuted and that in fact they were the ones oppressing the weak in the name of Christ. For me that was the tipping point where I said to myself "well, I can't really justify defining 'true Christianity' based on my own understanding of the bible and putting the majority of Christians in the 'not-true-Christians' basket. I've just got to accept that the majority of Christians do in fact get to define what 'Christianity' really is. That means that I've got to accept that all those 'Christians' that I've been writing-off as 'not-true-Christians' due to them being unloving, uncharitable, self-righteous, anti-gay, hypocritical, ignorant, bible-betraying, Christ-unlike, jerks, who I didn't want to be associated with, are actually 'Christians'. Hmm, well I don't want to be associated with them, so I don't want to call myself a 'Christian'."
I get the impression that this general trend is happening to quite a lot of people. A hundred years ago there was a huge contingent of liberal Christians and nominal Christians, who balanced out the fundamentalists and made "Christianity" palatable to everyone, because everyone could find something to like. Over the decades, increasingly the nominal and liberal Christians have dropped out of churches and out of participation in Christian groups. This has meant that those within Christian groups have become increasingly only-fundamentalists with very little balance. The result is that a lot of moderate Christians are getting increasingly scared-off from Christian groups as the fundamentalists make it a matter of "it's my way or the highway", with various litmus tests of faith - eg opposition to gay marriage, opposition to evolution, opposition to abortion - that serve to alienate moderate Christians.
Having said that, I do get how the behaviour of Christians is problematic IF you expect Christians, as a matter of doctrine, to behave better in general in line with Gal 5:22.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWhether I am willing to be associated with "Christianity" or call myself a "Christian" depends on what I perceive "Christianity" and "Christians" to be. When my perception of Christians was of those who have a loving, kind, caring and thoughtful attitude toward others and who are passionately concerned with the plight of the poor and helping those in need in our society (as Sam seems an able ambassador of), then I was quite happy to call myself a "Christian" and be associated with "Christianity".
For a long time I overlooked those so-called Christians who were less-than-loving, less-than-kind, less-than-caring, who showed little compassion for the poor, and who thought the bible told them to be anti-gay, and considered those people not real Christians. The tipping point really came when I realized the extent to which Christians around the world were anti-gay - that it wasn't just a few quacks with terrible exegesis but it was in fact the majority of "Christians" world-wide who were really and for-real against giving rights to the oppressed or helping the persecuted and that in fact they were the ones oppressing the weak in the name of Christ. For me that was the tipping point where I said to myself "well, I can't really justify defining 'true Christianity' based on my own understanding of the bible and putting the majority of Christians in the 'not-true-Christians' basket. I've just got to accept that the majority of Christians do in fact get to define what 'Christianity' really is. That means that I've got to accept that all those 'Christians' that I've been writing-off as 'not-true-Christians' due to them being unloving, uncharitable, self-righteous, anti-gay, hypocritical, ignorant, bible-betraying, Christ-unlike, jerks, who I didn't want to be associated with, are actually 'Christians'. Hmm, well I don't want to be associated with them, so I don't want to call myself a 'Christian'."
I get the impression that this general trend is happening to quite a lot of people. A hundred years ago there was a huge contingent of liberal Christians and nominal Christians, who balanced out the fundamentalists and made "Christianity" palatable to everyone, because everyone could find something to like. Over the decades, increasingly the nominal and liberal Christians have dropped out of churches and out of participation in Christian groups. This has meant that those within Christian groups have become increasingly only-fundamentalists with very little balance. The result is that a lot of moderate Christians are getting increasingly scared-off from Christian groups as the fundamentalists make it a matter of "it's my way or the highway", with various litmus tests of faith - eg opposition to gay marriage, opposition to evolution, opposition to abortion - that serve to alienate moderate Christians.
But, heck, here I go "bragging" again, so I should just shut up and let guys like you spew forth your ignorance and hate.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostHate? It is possible to disapprove and disagree without hate.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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